2011-09-16, 12:39 PM
I'll be straight to the point, Jump did a lot of good for most classes, but two were left behind. Thieves and Pirates. However, this thread isn't about "this sucks" or "NL 4 LIFE". This thread is an attempt to see what people would love to see in the Thief and Pirate Jump.
The way I decided to take is for people to get someone to speak for them. Someone that plays their class. I, myself, am a Night Lord. And therefore, I'll try to explain what things I'd like to see changed. Oh, and I'm not including Cygnuses for now because they are dependant on the adventurer counterparts. Accepting suggestions there too though.
For now, the people representing each class are:
Assasin branch: Alloy
Bandit branch: ?
Brawler branch: ?
Gunslinger branch: ?
And now...
THE ASSASIN'S LAMENT.
Let's see, there's a LOT of things going wrong with this class. Even starting with 1st job.
1st job.
Well, the first thing we see here is that, while bandits can spend all points freely, we get a slight unfairness. We loose 5 points due to keen eyes (increase throwing star range). A skill that should be built in as a thief. I'd consider the same skills as now, more or less, because of the daggar/claw paths. If anything, turn double stab and Lucky 7 into the same skill. Also, as an added thing, assasins should have a puch to carry their stars. Make it so it increases in the number of slots by level, for example. Like, 1 slot every 10 levels, having a whooping 20 extra star slots at level 200, but only 12 at level 120. Ah, also, after those run out, you'd start using inventory slots again.
That reminds me, it'd be quite fancy if every class got unique passive skills like mercedes, cannon shooter and Demon slayer did. This could simply be a skill for thieves.
And the most shocking change I'd say. Buff nimble body. Accuracy and avoidability seem fine, but add an increase in speed and jump! 130 speed and 115 jump as a passive boost, and knocking the cap up to 180. That'd mean two things: One, you run faster than mounts, yes. Two, speed equipment helps if it adds up to 10. Additionally, depending on how fast you climb ladders, I'd consider doubling the climbing speed or not.
2nd job.
Ah! This a hard one to balance. Each skill is on its place, and each one helps. Let's see... All I'd do is change drain to do something new. As a self recovery skill, still, but... I can't help but notice it's sometimes easy to die with it, even just spamming it. Just because the cap of damage turned into health seems to be 50% of your health... But HB is considered as 160%, so you heal way less than it seems at a first glance. Just minor tweaks. Maybe add in phisical training as all other classes.
3rd job.
Oh god. The pain starts here. Most skills are a joke. Others are a poor excuse, and others have no use at all. I can't even decide where to begin with. To make these skills, I decided two things: 1, thieves are usually seen as a band. I'd encourage more party stuff. 2, thieves should have a variety of tricks, but not offensive or defensive, just situational ones. and with that said...
Alchemist is a nice skill. The only downside is that it has no use for % based recovery potions, and that you usually rely on drain to recover health. I'd put a buff on % recovery skills too, but halving their benefits. That way, elixirs would heal 50% + 25% off it, having 62.5% healed. Still a use, but not as broken as it would be.
Meso up. It's a good concept, but a poor execution. Consider that it has no use on bosses, monsters that drop no mesos, or bosses with other people that don't have the buff (The last one to hit determines the mesos dropped). My suggestion is to completely rework it. Now it'd be called as "Lucky feeling" or something. NOW COMES THE INTERESTING PART. You have no increases in stats, but your ACTUAL LUCK increases. You tend to land less low hits (Kinda more mastery, but not exactly), more criticals, mesos dropped increase, you get more misses from enemy attacks, and you get to dodge a fatal hit more often. Of course, it can still happen, but EVERYTHING IS PICKED WITH A DIFFERENT RANDOM GENERATOR. One that picks better outcomes slightly more often. The more the level, the better, but never gamebreaking. Oh, and yes, party skill, like the original meso up. Shouldn't work on stuff like scrolls and the likes.
Shadow Partner. God dammit. REMOVE THE ROCK USAGE ALREADY. Also make us have a shadow of ourselves instead of some bald bastard.
Shadow Web. A skill that stops enemies... until you attack them. Seriously? A nerfed stun that deals ridiculous damage and needs you to be near as a ranged class? CHANGE THIS SKILL. My suggestion here is to simply crate a platform out of your shadow. If you played Donkey Kong Country 2 you'll get the idea. Add a bit of stance effect while in it (30% should do), and you just got an interesting skill. Cast it in midair if needed, to aid warriors to reach that hard to reach Zakum arm, or Horntail's head, or aid that poor Bowman always being knocked back. Of course, to prevent web flights, it'd need a cooldown.The better the level, the smaller the cooldown, the longer it lasts, and the more stance it gives.
Shadow Meso. So you use mesos. To hit lower. Ok, who thought of this. This needs some good change. I'd TOTALLY REMOVE IT. Result, add a skill to replace it. I'd call it "Shadow trampoline". The animation would be you jumping, throwing some spikes to the ground, with a web inbetween, to deploy a trampoline made out of shadow web... Then, you and anyone in your party can jump on it, and use it as a spring! If the web is lighted, it's from someone in your party, and can use it. Dark, you can't, guy's out of your party.
Avenger. Oh, 'tis cool. Oh wait, little wonderful suggestion. Add a custom huge star animation for each set. It'd be awesome. If no animation is found in the data, use the default.
Flash jump. Less skill points, I'd suggest. Dual bladers have that already, why not us too?
Dark flare Bad synergy skill. First, we are a class that needs to avoid stuff. This skill punishes us for avoiding. THAT MAKES NO SENSE. I'd make it deal damage when someone in the party actually dodges an attack. That would actually make having "Lucky feeling" useful, and even reward you and your party for dodging.
4th job.
MORE PAIN. LOTS OF IT.
Triple throw. It's ok as it is now, but just make it a passive over Lucky 7. To have less skill cluttering. Makes sense, looks pretty, sounds wonderful.
Taunt. not a bad skill, but feels like it has a too long animation. I'd just speed it up. Also, it should do something on bosses. Not the same effect though, it'd be ridiculous. Something like making the boss focus on whoever cast it for a while seems just perfect, good synergy with shadow shifter and "lucky feeling"
Shadow Stars. Two possible approaches. Either make it undispelable, or make it NOT spend 200 stars... Just make it so you keep using stars, but upon throwing the 200th, you use no more until the buff runs out. That would let us keep having a nice star saving skill, while not just loosing loads due to dispel.
Expert Throwing Star Handling. Ah, this one. It's quite a nice skill, but I'd remove the "shadow claw doesn't give you the full effect". It's like punishing you for having another skill! I'd turn it into this: Upon dodging an attack, 100% criticals for a second. just like archers, yes.
Shadow shifter. Seems good to me. I'd add something like "dodging with this makes dark flare deal 50% more damage".
Venom. Something needs to be done with this. Not sure what, but maybe something like "poisoned enemies infect nearby ones". That other venom would be a purple one, and stack with the original venom, only it wouldn't infect others. So more effective with more enemies infected. It could leave open a possibility of a hit-and-run tactic.
Ninja Ambush. Useless. Should be removed and be ashamed. The time it takes to be cast gives you time for 2 attacks, while dealing less than one in total. And doesn't stack. I need ideas to fill in here.
Ninja Storm. Useless until level 30. Then it becomes kinda useful, because it still has a chance to knock stuff, but you no longer need it... You don't punch stuff anymore. Need ideas here too.
Welp, feel free to contribute, or become your class' representative.
The way I decided to take is for people to get someone to speak for them. Someone that plays their class. I, myself, am a Night Lord. And therefore, I'll try to explain what things I'd like to see changed. Oh, and I'm not including Cygnuses for now because they are dependant on the adventurer counterparts. Accepting suggestions there too though.
For now, the people representing each class are:
Assasin branch: Alloy
Bandit branch: ?
Brawler branch: ?
Gunslinger branch: ?
And now...
THE ASSASIN'S LAMENT.
Let's see, there's a LOT of things going wrong with this class. Even starting with 1st job.
1st job.
Well, the first thing we see here is that, while bandits can spend all points freely, we get a slight unfairness. We loose 5 points due to keen eyes (increase throwing star range). A skill that should be built in as a thief. I'd consider the same skills as now, more or less, because of the daggar/claw paths. If anything, turn double stab and Lucky 7 into the same skill. Also, as an added thing, assasins should have a puch to carry their stars. Make it so it increases in the number of slots by level, for example. Like, 1 slot every 10 levels, having a whooping 20 extra star slots at level 200, but only 12 at level 120. Ah, also, after those run out, you'd start using inventory slots again.
That reminds me, it'd be quite fancy if every class got unique passive skills like mercedes, cannon shooter and Demon slayer did. This could simply be a skill for thieves.
And the most shocking change I'd say. Buff nimble body. Accuracy and avoidability seem fine, but add an increase in speed and jump! 130 speed and 115 jump as a passive boost, and knocking the cap up to 180. That'd mean two things: One, you run faster than mounts, yes. Two, speed equipment helps if it adds up to 10. Additionally, depending on how fast you climb ladders, I'd consider doubling the climbing speed or not.
2nd job.
Ah! This a hard one to balance. Each skill is on its place, and each one helps. Let's see... All I'd do is change drain to do something new. As a self recovery skill, still, but... I can't help but notice it's sometimes easy to die with it, even just spamming it. Just because the cap of damage turned into health seems to be 50% of your health... But HB is considered as 160%, so you heal way less than it seems at a first glance. Just minor tweaks. Maybe add in phisical training as all other classes.
3rd job.
Oh god. The pain starts here. Most skills are a joke. Others are a poor excuse, and others have no use at all. I can't even decide where to begin with. To make these skills, I decided two things: 1, thieves are usually seen as a band. I'd encourage more party stuff. 2, thieves should have a variety of tricks, but not offensive or defensive, just situational ones. and with that said...
Alchemist is a nice skill. The only downside is that it has no use for % based recovery potions, and that you usually rely on drain to recover health. I'd put a buff on % recovery skills too, but halving their benefits. That way, elixirs would heal 50% + 25% off it, having 62.5% healed. Still a use, but not as broken as it would be.
Meso up. It's a good concept, but a poor execution. Consider that it has no use on bosses, monsters that drop no mesos, or bosses with other people that don't have the buff (The last one to hit determines the mesos dropped). My suggestion is to completely rework it. Now it'd be called as "Lucky feeling" or something. NOW COMES THE INTERESTING PART. You have no increases in stats, but your ACTUAL LUCK increases. You tend to land less low hits (Kinda more mastery, but not exactly), more criticals, mesos dropped increase, you get more misses from enemy attacks, and you get to dodge a fatal hit more often. Of course, it can still happen, but EVERYTHING IS PICKED WITH A DIFFERENT RANDOM GENERATOR. One that picks better outcomes slightly more often. The more the level, the better, but never gamebreaking. Oh, and yes, party skill, like the original meso up. Shouldn't work on stuff like scrolls and the likes.
Shadow Partner. God dammit. REMOVE THE ROCK USAGE ALREADY. Also make us have a shadow of ourselves instead of some bald bastard.
Shadow Web. A skill that stops enemies... until you attack them. Seriously? A nerfed stun that deals ridiculous damage and needs you to be near as a ranged class? CHANGE THIS SKILL. My suggestion here is to simply crate a platform out of your shadow. If you played Donkey Kong Country 2 you'll get the idea. Add a bit of stance effect while in it (30% should do), and you just got an interesting skill. Cast it in midair if needed, to aid warriors to reach that hard to reach Zakum arm, or Horntail's head, or aid that poor Bowman always being knocked back. Of course, to prevent web flights, it'd need a cooldown.The better the level, the smaller the cooldown, the longer it lasts, and the more stance it gives.
Shadow Meso. So you use mesos. To hit lower. Ok, who thought of this. This needs some good change. I'd TOTALLY REMOVE IT. Result, add a skill to replace it. I'd call it "Shadow trampoline". The animation would be you jumping, throwing some spikes to the ground, with a web inbetween, to deploy a trampoline made out of shadow web... Then, you and anyone in your party can jump on it, and use it as a spring! If the web is lighted, it's from someone in your party, and can use it. Dark, you can't, guy's out of your party.
Avenger. Oh, 'tis cool. Oh wait, little wonderful suggestion. Add a custom huge star animation for each set. It'd be awesome. If no animation is found in the data, use the default.
Flash jump. Less skill points, I'd suggest. Dual bladers have that already, why not us too?
Dark flare Bad synergy skill. First, we are a class that needs to avoid stuff. This skill punishes us for avoiding. THAT MAKES NO SENSE. I'd make it deal damage when someone in the party actually dodges an attack. That would actually make having "Lucky feeling" useful, and even reward you and your party for dodging.
4th job.
MORE PAIN. LOTS OF IT.
Triple throw. It's ok as it is now, but just make it a passive over Lucky 7. To have less skill cluttering. Makes sense, looks pretty, sounds wonderful.
Taunt. not a bad skill, but feels like it has a too long animation. I'd just speed it up. Also, it should do something on bosses. Not the same effect though, it'd be ridiculous. Something like making the boss focus on whoever cast it for a while seems just perfect, good synergy with shadow shifter and "lucky feeling"
Shadow Stars. Two possible approaches. Either make it undispelable, or make it NOT spend 200 stars... Just make it so you keep using stars, but upon throwing the 200th, you use no more until the buff runs out. That would let us keep having a nice star saving skill, while not just loosing loads due to dispel.
Expert Throwing Star Handling. Ah, this one. It's quite a nice skill, but I'd remove the "shadow claw doesn't give you the full effect". It's like punishing you for having another skill! I'd turn it into this: Upon dodging an attack, 100% criticals for a second. just like archers, yes.
Shadow shifter. Seems good to me. I'd add something like "dodging with this makes dark flare deal 50% more damage".
Venom. Something needs to be done with this. Not sure what, but maybe something like "poisoned enemies infect nearby ones". That other venom would be a purple one, and stack with the original venom, only it wouldn't infect others. So more effective with more enemies infected. It could leave open a possibility of a hit-and-run tactic.
Ninja Ambush. Useless. Should be removed and be ashamed. The time it takes to be cast gives you time for 2 attacks, while dealing less than one in total. And doesn't stack. I need ideas to fill in here.
Ninja Storm. Useless until level 30. Then it becomes kinda useful, because it still has a chance to knock stuff, but you no longer need it... You don't punch stuff anymore. Need ideas here too.
Welp, feel free to contribute, or become your class' representative.
its unfair if they're as strong as mages
