Posting Freak
Posts: 6,406
Threads: 399
Joined: 2008-07
Gender: Male
Twins have the same genetics. Are they the same person?
Vegetables have family members. They have a mark on society. But vegetable-state is not genetic. It is environmental. They use to be able to function just like any other human, but now they cannot. This differs from a fetus who has never been able to do these things.
A human is an organism. It takes from an environment and keeps itself functioning.
A group of cells biologically dependent on its mother is not an organism. It is a group of cells dependent on another being. Much like a virus. Viruses are not considered living. Neither are fetuses.
A fetus cannot think, it cannot feel, it cannot respond to its environment in any way. It's nervous system, and therefore brain - the most noteworthy human trait, is not developed. It is not a human in any shape or form aside from raw genetics, but my skin cells have that.
Posting Freak
Posts: 3,085
Threads: 178
Joined: 2010-09
Gender: Neuter
Country Flag: ireland
IGN: Stephen
Server: U.S.A.
Level: 25
Job: Sailor
Guild: USN
Guild Alliance: VAQ-141 Shadowhawks
Hazzy Wrote:A fetus cannot think, it cannot feel, it cannot respond to its environment in any way. It's nervous system, and therefore brain - the most noteworthy human trait, is not developed. It is not a human in any shape or form aside from raw genetics, but my skin cells have that.
A fetus can be impacted and change drastically pending its environment changes.
Posting Freak
Posts: 6,406
Threads: 399
Joined: 2008-07
Gender: Male
If I poke you, you move away, get mad, et etera. The area might even begin to bruise. That is responding.
If I poke you hard enough your skin will tear. That is not responding.
Posting Freak
Posts: 1,474
Threads: 69
Joined: 2008-09
Hazzy Wrote:Twins have the same genetics. Are they the same person?
Vegetables have family members. They have a mark on society. But vegetable-state is not genetic. It is environmental. They use to be able to function just like any other human, but now they cannot. This differs from a fetus who has never been able to do these things.
A human is an organism. It takes from an environment and keeps itself functioning.
A group of cells biologically dependent on its mother is not an organism. It is a group of cells dependent on another being. Much like a virus. Viruses are not considered living. Neither are fetuses.
A fetus cannot think, it cannot feel, it cannot respond to its environment in any way. It's nervous system, and therefore brain - the most noteworthy human trait, is not developed. It is not a human in any shape or form aside from raw genetics, but my skin cells have that.
The reason vira aren't "alive" is because they can't reproduce by themselves. Cells are living because they can reproduce without the help of another cell. A virus has to infect a living cell to reproduce. A fetus is alive because its cells are reproducing without having to infect another cell to do so. Therefore, the fetus is a living human.
I honestly don't see the real problem with prohibiting abortions. There are numerous forms of contraception that are readily available. One has sex knowing full well the consequences might be they could get pregnant. If you get pregnant and don't want the baby, put it up for adoption. There are tons of people out there who want children but can't. I see no justification to essentially kill another human being. (Your own son or daughter, no less!)
Posting Freak
Posts: 2,426
Threads: 88
Joined: 2009-06
I am pro life and against it.
I don't believe in abortions, but I'm not about to go around playing God saying who gets to do what in this world.
Posting Freak
Posts: 3,085
Threads: 178
Joined: 2010-09
Gender: Neuter
Country Flag: ireland
IGN: Stephen
Server: U.S.A.
Level: 25
Job: Sailor
Guild: USN
Guild Alliance: VAQ-141 Shadowhawks
Hazzy Wrote:If I poke you, you move away, get mad, et etera. The area might even begin to bruise. That is responding.
If I poke you hard enough your skin will tear. That is not responding.
however, the skin IS responding to the increase in pressure by tearing, due to the pressure exceeding the threshold that the skin is safely able to maintain before rupturing.
Test Mushroom
Posts: 10,045
Threads: 1,506
Joined: 2008-06
Gender: Male
Sexual Orientation: Straight
Country Flag: usa
IGN: GuavaCowboy
Server: Zenith
Level: 10x
Job: Jett
Guild: L>
OB3LISK Wrote:but I'm not about to go around playing God saying who gets to do what in this world.
Say what?
All laws are essentially playing God saying who gets to do what in this world. No laws mean chaos. When I wrote the R&R of this website, I was playing God on this website. To write laws is playing God and there are millions of laws around us. Why is this law any different?
Posting Freak
Posts: 1,474
Threads: 69
Joined: 2008-09
Hazzy Wrote:If I poke you, you move away, get mad, et etera. The area might even begin to bruise. That is responding.
If I poke you hard enough your skin will tear. That is not responding.
Oh, and ultrasounds have shown fetuses responding. Videos of ultrasounds have shown fetuses attempting to escape the tools used to abort a fetus.
Senior Member
Posts: 684
Threads: 5
Joined: 2010-07
I'm going to say that I'm all for the victim to have a choice.
I mean crap, it's bad enough this person was -forced- into something so traumatic and awful as rape, but to add to that by saying they have no choice when it comes to what to do if they become pregnant afterward? That's just horrible.
I believe not giving them a choice is ''Un-American''.
Posting Freak
Posts: 1,884
Threads: 37
Joined: 2008-07
Both of those links were awful to read, but I guess I came in expecting an article and got a persuasive essay. I wasn't able to figure out exactly what Amendment 62 said using either of them, though.
I've always been on the fence about abortion. I personally believe that after the egg is fertilized, it shouldn't be terminated, and I would never encourage anyone around me to have one. However, though I don't agree with it, I can understand that some people find it necessary in whatever circumstances they may have run into, and I can see how the argument about what a human is can be argued endlessly. So I have decided it's better to let people have the freedom to do so, rather than impose my own moral values onto them.
Posting Freak
Posts: 8,478
Threads: 128
Joined: 2008-07
Gender: Neuter
Country Flag: canada
IGN: Oooh
Server: Bera
Job: Empress
Farm: Stereo
Both pro-choice and pro-life are intentionally very loaded terms.
I am completely in support of mothers being able to choose, but I hope they choose to let the baby live.
I don't have sympathy for the fetus though - it's entirely an issue of what abortion does to the mother. The fetus is just a parasite on the mother, it's not conscious or independent and if it's harmful to the mother it needs to be removed, like how you would remove a malignant tumor. (but again, if the tumor's benign, and the surgery would be traumatic, why do it?)
Senior Member
Posts: 737
Threads: 34
Joined: 2010-08
Oh god damn it I thought you said "Raped teens shouldn't be forced to have babies"...now I look like an pimento ._.
I do believe rape victims should kill themselves and get it over with.
Also I always thought seeing pro-lifers have a rapebaby would be fun, even though I'm pro-life.
Won't Be Coming Back
Posts: 1,822
Threads: 200
Joined: 2009-10
Cancambo Wrote:The reason vira aren't "alive" is because they can't reproduce by themselves. Cells are living because they can reproduce without the help of another cell. A virus has to infect a living cell to reproduce. A fetus is alive because its cells are reproducing without having to infect another cell to do so. Therefore, the fetus is a living human.
If you remove a gamete from the womb, it's going to stop multiplying fairly quickly. The definition of a single unit of life is individual survival. That's why your stomach cells and your heart cells aren't considered two entirely different organisms. They will die without the rest of the human body. Before a fetus can survive on its own, it's just like another organ, except it doesn't actually do anything to help its host.
Posting Freak
Posts: 1,184
Threads: 187
Joined: 2008-07
larmie Wrote:I do believe rape victims should kill themselves and get it over with.
Ummm... what?
Posting Freak
Posts: 3,015
Threads: 118
Joined: 2008-07
Cancambo Wrote:Oh, and ultrasounds have shown fetuses responding. Videos of ultrasounds have shown fetuses attempting to escape the tools used to abort a fetus. Movements similar like this "human being"?
[video=youtube;VUWQFF0RJN4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUWQFF0RJN4[/video]
Posting Freak
Posts: 10,979
Threads: 369
Joined: 2008-10
Cactuar Wrote:Ummm... what?
Rape victims generally become worthless messed up humans, so it's best to get rid of them as soon as possible.
Posting Freak
Posts: 1,184
Threads: 187
Joined: 2008-07
MetaSeraphim Wrote:Rape victims generally become worthless messed up humans, so it's best to get rid of them as soon as possible.
Oh, okay. That's entirely reasonable.
Posting Freak
Posts: 3,085
Threads: 178
Joined: 2010-09
Gender: Neuter
Country Flag: ireland
IGN: Stephen
Server: U.S.A.
Level: 25
Job: Sailor
Guild: USN
Guild Alliance: VAQ-141 Shadowhawks
MetaSeraphim Wrote:Rape victims generally become worthless messed up humans, so it's best to get rid of them as soon as possible.
have you ever met any victims of rape? thats a very ignorant statement for you to have made. even just saying "generally" doesnt make it any better. anyone that goes through a traumatic event has the potential to become mentally unstable, so saying its limited to rape is ridiculous.
Senior Member
Posts: 439
Threads: 21
Joined: 2010-08
Mute Wrote:have you ever met any victims of rape? thats a very ignorant statement for you to have made. even just saying "generally" doesnt make it any better. anyone that goes through a traumatic event has the potential to become mentally unstable, so saying its limited to rape is ridiculous.
he's stating that's what larmie was implying.
Posting Freak
Posts: 3,085
Threads: 178
Joined: 2010-09
Gender: Neuter
Country Flag: ireland
IGN: Stephen
Server: U.S.A.
Level: 25
Job: Sailor
Guild: USN
Guild Alliance: VAQ-141 Shadowhawks
Polka Wrote:he's stating that's what larmie was implying.
either way, its an ignorant thing to say, whether its larmie saying it or meta.
|