The BIBLE.

requirements for heaven outside of Jesus Christ: exodus 20:1-17. eg:

about ur tag. the only requirement for salvation according to the bible is Jesus.

its like a parent to child. the child will always be welcome not for what it does, but simply because the parent loves the child. the only why the parent cannot accept the child is if the child doesn't accept the parent. its not based on anything the child does.

to Xbish, a lot those things you have written in the bible are semi true. in the context of things some of the fighting is in self defense, or a result of an action. concerning the verses that say "...are doomed." can be taken as "if you have unprotected sex you'll get aids" or "those who touch boiling pot will be burned." it does not mean for a person to go out and spread a disease or burning people at the stake for their actions. simply a foretelling of actions and consequences.

about ur tag. the only requirement for salvation according to the bible is Jesus.

i guess i am trying to convey that if you don't repent and acknowledge that Jesus died for your sins on the cross, then you have to live up to the law. and none of us can live up to that.

speaking of the requirement being "jesus" - i guess you are taking it from john 14:5-7, which says:
Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

so what did jesus actually preach again? "believe"? "accept"?
From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." mt 4:17
As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.' mt 10:7

john the baptist, who came before him, preached:
And so John came, baptizing in the desert region and preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. mk 1:4

and jesus also said:
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. mt 7:21
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. mt 5:17-18

its like a parent to child. the child will always be welcome not for what it does, but simply because the parent loves the child. the only why the parent cannot accept the child is if the child doesn't accept the parent. its not based on anything the child does.

yes, unconditional love.

however look how God treats his beloved nation of israel. read contextually and you may see he is not being unloving - and he continues to do this today. humanity hasn't thought of anything new "nothing new under the sun" (ecc):

"26 But they were disobedient and rebelled against you; they put your law behind their backs. They killed your prophets, who had admonished them in order to turn them back to you; they committed awful blasphemies. 27 So you handed them over to their enemies, who oppressed them. But when they were oppressed they cried out to you. From heaven you heard them, and in your great compassion you gave them deliverers, who rescued them from the hand of their enemies.

28 "But as soon as they were at rest, they again did what was evil in your sight. Then you abandoned them to the hand of their enemies so that they ruled over them. And when they cried out to you again, you heard from heaven, and in your compassion you delivered them time after time.

29 "You warned them to return to your law, but they became arrogant and disobeyed your commands. They sinned against your ordinances, by which a man will live if he obeys them. Stubbornly they turned their backs on you, became stiff-necked and refused to listen. 30 For many years you were patient with them. By your Spirit you admonished them through your prophets. Yet they paid no attention, so you handed them over to the neighboring peoples. 31 But in your great mercy you did not put an end to them or abandon them, for you are a gracious and merciful God.
- neh 9:26-9

God is both perfectly loving, and perfectly fair. he will not sidle out of a punishment "ohhh i'll let that one slide" and yet if we submit our lives to him, not even our worst failings will block us from receiving the outpouring of his blessings.

to Xbish, a lot those things you have written in the bible are semi true. in the context of things some of the fighting is in self defense, or a result of an action. concerning the verses that say "...are doomed." can be taken as "if you have unprotected sex you'll get aids" or "those who touch boiling pot will be burned." it does not mean for a person to go out and spread a disease or burning people at the stake for their actions. simply a foretelling of actions and consequences.

what xbish has written is completely true. it is from the bible. he's just taking it out of context. so it's decontextualised - but it's true. look what happens when you take the bible out of context:

There is no God. ps 14:1b

let's look at the slightly wider context:

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. ps 14:1

i guess i am trying ...one who does good.[/i] ps 14:1

i think we're saying the same thing. if you disagree, Pm me. i not too sure the rest of the forum would want to hear what will be said.

i think we're saying the same thing. if you disagree, Pm me. i not too sure the rest of the forum would want to hear what will be said.

fixed my sig hope that makes more sense, and i think we are saying the same thing lol

also look at
http://www.wayofthemaster.com

btw i apologise if i sound like i'm spouting bible verses. i'm not trying to, i just don't have much faith in my own words - so i'm using the words of someone i do have faith in. i found this site very helpful

And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. 2 cor 3:18

let's give God the glory together

what xbish has written is completely true. it is from the bible. he's just taking it out of context. so it's decontextualised - but it's true. look what happens when you take the bible out of context:

There is no God. ps 14:1b

let's look at the slightly wider context:

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. ps 14:1

except i did not quote half sentences. what i quoted there was not out fo context it is about holy wars. holy wars like every other war is nasty bussiness and a god that is all about that gives me the creeps.

i read the bible, the good the bad and the crazy. i was catholic for whatever that means, i went to a catholic school and college but i dont follow any religion. god as an entity, sure there might be one, religion and those ppl that stand behind it, no, they are worthless to me.

now the bible, lets be real is was written by men, not by god. they are a collection of books, but in no way they are the words of a god, simple the word of men, some perhaps even smarter than most of us. i am all about reading it, and learning from it, just like you read a good novel or even perhaps a history book. but in no way should we take the bible as 100% real and 100% law. it is outdated and full of contradictions and mistakes.

now you guys should read the bible for what it is, a good book yes but just a book, get out of your religious bubble and look at it from a real world point of view. only then should we discuss this any further.

except i did not quote half sentences. what i quoted there was not out fo context it is about holy wars. holy wars like every other war is nasty bussiness and a god that is all about that gives me the creeps.

i read the bible, the good the bad and the crazy. i was catholic for whatever that means, i went to a catholic school and college but i dont follow any religion. god as an entity, sure there might be one, religion and those ppl that stand behind it, no, they are worthless to me.

now the bible, lets be real is was written by men, not by god. they are a collection of books, but in no way they are the words of a god, simple the word of men, some perhaps even smarter than most of us. i am all about reading it, and learning from it, just like you read a good novel or even perhaps a history book. but in no way should we take the bible as 100% real and 100% law. it is outdated and full of contradictions and mistakes.

now you guys should read the bible for what it is, a good book yes but just a book, get out of your religious bubble and look at it from a real world point of view. only then should we discuss this any further.

hi xbish welcome back to the thread. i read all the quotations you gave and thought them pretty good. which wars did your quotations come from?

(quotes please or it's just a stereotype)

also how do you mean you were a catholic "whatever that means"? you don't care what it means and you don't want to know? or you can tell me exactly what it means and there is x y z you don't like about it?

"outdated" can you explain some more? not sure what you mean here sorry

hi xbish welcome back to the thread. i read all the quotations you gave and thought them pretty good. which wars did your quotations come from?

(quotes please or it's just a stereotype)

also how do you mean you were a catholic "whatever that means"? you don't care what it means and you don't want to know? or you can tell me exactly what it means and there is x y z you don't like about it?

"outdated" can you explain some more? not sure what you mean here sorry

Deuteronomy is the fifth book of the Hebrew Bible and of the Old Testament. In form it is a set of three sermons delivered by Moses reviewing the previous forty years of wandering in the wilderness; its central element is a detailed law-code by which the Children of Israel are to live in the Promised Land.

In theological terms the book constitutes a covenant between Yahweh and the "Children of Israel"; this is the culmination of the series of covenants which begins with that between Yahweh and all living things after the Flood (Genesis 9). One of its most significant verses constitutes the shema ("Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one!"), which today serves as the definitive statement of Jewish identity.

The majority scholarly opinion is that the bulk of the book appears to have been composed in the late 7th century BC, during the religious reforms carried out under king Josiah, with later additions from the period after the fall of Judah to the Neo-Babylonian empire in 586 BC; a minority view holds that the book is largely a creation of the post-Exilic, Persian period, i.e. the 4th century BC and even later. Its essential concerns mirror the thrust of Josiah's reforms: Yahweh is to be accepted as the sole God of Israel, and worshiped only in one place.

Isaiah was born in the 8th century, now the 8th century BC was a period of great changes in civilizations. In Egypt, the 23rd and 24th dynasties led to rule from Nubia in the 25 Dynasty. The Neo-Assyrian Empire reaches the peak of its power, conquering the Kingdom of Israel as well as nearby countries.

i hope you know what the exodus is.

now lets go to outdated. it as written eons ago, its teachings although some can still be considered valid now a days the bulk of the stories can be considered archaic and therefore moot. like i said it is a good book and i would recomend read it, but for what it is a collection of books and stories from ancient times, some of which have no historical base.

lastly, why i say whatever that means. catholics are considered the lax and chilling homies of religion, or so i was taught. i dont follow any religion now so i cant stand here and say i am catholic and i believe so and so, however i was raised and educated within a religion that also uses the bible as its holy book, the big tamale as we call it and i have lived religion and its pros and cons so that is whatever it means, that i am a non beleiver in the bible and
now brb maple time be back in 4 hours, 2x time, now that is holy time.

ZOMG
i saw that from the movie
called

THE LOVE GURU!!!

holy time? i am glad for you that you think you have found your life's purpose, but i guess sad at the same time, because someday i know you will die, and i guess you will die wishing for what you cannot have... i cannot help that, and neither can you when it happens:

Jesus said: “You did not choose Me, but I chose you” jn 15:16
in exodus 33:19 God said: "And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

God is a better judge than me. i wish you well.

"The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." mt 13:41-43

Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.

now that is just sad, preaching at me that i am not listening to your god or something because i take it lightly and call maple holy time, we call that a joke in my town, then again we beaners are weird.
about wishiing what you cant have, i dont see what tha hell that means but il say tururu and walk away, yes i will die and then decompose and become nurients for other life forms, just like you.

you see, bible quotes have no effect on me because the book has no spirtual meaning to me. perhaps if you quote darwin id be more inclined to change my point of view.

The best policy with religion is to quietly believe what you want to believe and leave the others alone. People have certain fundamental assumptions as a foundation upon which their logical belief system is based. Religion or lack of religion is usually a huge part of that. Challenge that to someone in any way, and you're ASKING for a pissing contest. Most people get very heated when their core beliefs are challenged.

The fact that you see no sense in what the other person is saying is still not a good reason to argue this stuff with them. From their perspective what YOU are saying makes no sense too. That's because the logic you're using is supporting emotional beliefs. Emotion is what you feel, not what makes sense. Whether you believe in God or not, that's what you feel, not what makes sense, because even the people who have seen God through traumatic experiences still are believing htat out of emotion.

One of my best friends is a strong-believing atheist who told me he once had a conversation with a priest that drove the priest crazy, and the priest resigned from the Church after that. I believe in God firmly. We are good friends becuase we have enough respect for each other not to bring this issue up, even though we can both argue the issue quite well. I am not really talking to anyone in particular in this thread, I am just telling all of you, arguing God/lack of God is not going to convince anyone. It'll just raise everyone's blood pressure.

You keep quoting the bible like it's the absolute truth...

I really don't see myself guiding the way i live with such a racist, sexist and violent book, not to mention completely outdated.

You keep quoting the bible like it's the absolute truth...

I really don't see myself guiding the way i live with such a racist, sexist and violent book, not to mention completely outdated.

It's not the book, it's how people interpret it. Any pimento can go to church and call himself a Christian, that doesn't mean the bible had any actual impact on him. I am not really religiously educated, I just practice the Ten Commandments. I don't murder, steal, have sex with married women, etc. If you take those basic things, the Bible is VERY effective as a guide for life.

If you want to argue that atheists are better people, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were all atheists. They didn't believe in the "racist, sexist and violent" book, and their policies were more unfair and murderous than anything Christians have ever done in the name of God.

There are some atheists who;d never do that kind of stuff. And there are some religious people that would never condone the Crusades. Don't blame religion for the assholes that used it as an excuse to murder other people.

The best policy with religion is to quietly believe what you want to believe and leave the others alone. People have certain fundamental assumptions as a foundation upon which their logical belief system is based. Religion or lack of religion is usually a huge part of that. Challenge that to someone in any way, and you're ASKING for a pissing contest. Most people get very heated when their core beliefs are challenged.

The fact that you see no sense in what the other person is saying is still not a good reason to argue this stuff with them. From their perspective what YOU are saying makes no sense too. That's because the logic you're using is supporting emotional beliefs. Emotion is what you feel, not what makes sense. Whether you believe in God or not, that's what you feel, not what makes sense, because even the people who have seen God through traumatic experiences still are believing htat out of emotion.

One of my best friends is a strong-believing atheist who told me he once had a conversation with a priest that drove the priest crazy, and the priest resigned from the Church after that. I believe in God firmly. We are good friends becuase we have enough respect for each other not to bring this issue up, even though we can both argue the issue quite well. I am not really talking to anyone in particular in this thread, I am just telling all of you, arguing God/lack of God is not going to convince anyone. It'll just raise everyone's blood pressure.

As always, a well written post by Quantact.

I completely agree with you. No point in discussing beliefs or life fundamentals with another person.

It's not the book, it's how people interpret it. Any pimento can go to church and call himself a Christian, that doesn't mean the bible had any actual impact on him. I am not really religiously educated, I just practice the Ten Commandments. I don't murder, steal, have sex with married women, etc. If you take those basic things, the Bible is VERY effective as a guide for life.

If you want to argue that atheists are better people, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were all atheists. They didn't believe in the "racist, sexist and violent" book, and their policies were more unfair and murderous than anything Christians have ever done in the name of God.

There are some atheists who;d never do that kind of stuff. And there are some religious people that would never condone the Crusades. Don't blame religion for the assholes that used it as an excuse to murder other people.

I wasn't referring to the portions of the bible that are vague and left up for interpretation, but the facts that are stated in it as actual history, that show not only christians, but also the christian god, as sexist and violent. I also don't think that the bible or religion are to blame for the actions carried out by the church in the name of the christian god, i was just saying that the bible in itself is too violent and prejudiced for my taste.

I agree with you, in part: i think theoretically, the rules in the bible could work as a basic guideline for life. However, these commandments are reduced to a simple black/white. Killing is a sin, period. Same with stealing or adultery. You're telling me you wouldn't kill protecting someone you love, or that you wouldn't steal a loaf of bread if your life depended on it? I know i probably would.

I don't think atheists (or people of any particular religion/belief for that matter) are better or worse. I have friends with various different beliefs, and we like talking about these things because we are constantly learning from each other. I think you can evolve much faster as a person if you keep an open mind to other people's ideas, than if you close up and hold your beliefs as the absolute truth.

maple time be back in 4 hours, 2x time, now that is holy time.

i assumed you meant what you said, because, well, that's what you said... i am sorry, i have an autism-type condition so i'm not sure when you're being sarcastic, especially when you don't say something like *sarcasm.* (it's my sin, i'm trying to be better.) so wait, you've figured out what is holy or you haven't? this isn't an important question for me, but it might be for you. several thoughts ring true to me:

"What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?" mk 8:36
"The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life." jn 12:25

also:

"Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." luke 18:25, and
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other..." mt 6:24

i think you are displeased. as i said before, if you have a squabble with God, take it up with God. i guess i could have known that you would be displeased with me. the Bible told me so:

Jesus said: "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first." jn 15:18

One of my best friends is a strong-believing atheist who told me he once had a conversation with a priest that drove the priest crazy, and the priest resigned from the Church after that.

LoL! Teach me how to do that. I wanna learn such skill.

It's not the book, it's how people interpret it. Any pimento can go to church and call himself a Christian, that doesn't mean the bible had any actual impact on him. I am not really religiously educated, I just practice the Ten Commandments. I don't murder, steal, have sex with married women, etc. If you take those basic things, the Bible is VERY effective as a guide for life.

If you want to argue that atheists are better people, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were all atheists. They didn't believe in the "racist, sexist and violent" book, and their policies were more unfair and murderous than anything Christians have ever done in the name of God.

There are some atheists who;d never do that kind of stuff. And there are some religious people that would never condone the Crusades. Don't blame religion for the assholes that used it as an excuse to murder other people.

when people start with the evil atheist names i just point at the holy inquisition and we call it even. religion does not make you good, there is as much evil doers inside organized religion as out of it. just let me remind you all the millions of natives in america (the continent) that were enslaved, raped and killed in the name of god by the spaniards.

and yes i did say the bible is a great book and we should all read it and learn from it, it is a good base for basic morals, but that does not make it the word of a god. the bible is full of mistakes, violence an contradictions. either god did not writte it or that god is not perfect. pick your poison

@ ji

since we like quotes for their randomness effect

All thinking men are atheists. — Ernest Hemingway

Faith means not wanting to know what is true. — Friedrich Nietzsche

The whole thing is so patently infantile, so foreign to reality, that to anyone with a friendly attitude to humanity it is painful to think that the great majority of mortals will never be able to rise above this view of life. — Sigmund Freud

"Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." luke 18:25, and
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other..." mt 6:24

This is one of the many parts of the bible that bother me. So what this is pretty much saying is that even if a person followed the ten commandments to the letter, was kind to others and lived an overall good life, but they happen to be hard workers who were lucky enough to make a fortune, they're going to hell?... Yeah... GG

Who even said the bible is real? Now, because I said that does that mean Im going to "hell"?