The BIBLE.

Just a little side note to keep you all thinking a bit:

Evil and good are very conceptual... Everyone has his own vision of it. Christians have a wide variety of branches, extremist Islam considers evil anything other than God (non extremist are quite likely to christian, actually), Budists believe in karma...

If evil does get ridden of, will it dissapear? In my opinion, nope. It'll still exist as the less good. It's a concept that represents the worst things existing. If the worst ones dissapear, the next in line shows up.

My own code of conduct is to aid those in need, if I can, to not judge by appearances, and to make others feel what they make feel to others (Either good or bad, and knowing my limits). It matches the christian concept of good quite a lot, but not exactly at some aspects.

These are my thoughts, nothing more. My 20 cents, so to speak.

EDIT:

We must be doing pretty well, even with only 33% of us believing in him, for him to not have obliteratred us already... I mean, he created us, something that is love itself, so we can fear him? Doesn't make sense to me, though, sorry.

For the FEAR thing it so more so a respect the God. A respect that would scale so large in God's massive power that if would be almost that of fear.

....
Let us take the discussion of ethics to the RUBIKS CUBE!
It really has little to do with the Bible.

What I find VERY interesting: 40 men wrote the bible,
and each one hasn't conflited with the other, (They didn't even meet each other)

Kinda cool when you think about it,
But I think most ppl like to think that theres a higher beeing; It gives them a sence of purpose, I guess

just my two cents
BB~

What I find VERY interesting: 40 men wrote the bible,
and each one hasn't conflited with the other, (They didn't even meet each other)

Kinda cool when you think about it,
But I think most ppl like to think that theres a higher beeing; It gives them a sence of purpose, I guess

just my two cents
BB~

wait wasnt it "god"?
and the bible is a collection of books put together by the church, picked to be the ones they considered "good" at the time. and there inconsistencies and conflicts all over the bible, hell, even in the same books.

wait wasnt it "god"?
and the bible is a collection of books put together by the church, picked to be the ones they considered "good" at the time. and there inconsistencies and conflicts all over the bible, hell, even in the same books.

Well they also tried to pick ones that didn't contradict each other too.
They could have done better...
but well...
No one is perfect.

wait wasnt it "god"?
and the bible is a collection of books put together by the church, picked to be the ones they considered "good" at the time. and there inconsistencies and conflicts all over the bible, hell, even in the same books.

well yes, they were inspired "by" god to write Scriptures.
Now, I haven't yet found any "inconsistencies" myself...
Also, there are at lest 39 Different Versions of the Bible,

[SIZE="1"](These are JUST my Thoughts and a bit of my research nothing else) [/SIZE]

well yes, they were inspired "by" god to write Scriptures.
Now, I haven't yet found any "inconsistencies" myself...
Also, there are at lest 39 Different Versions of the Bible,

[SIZE="1"](These are JUST my Thoughts and a bit of my research nothing else) [/SIZE]

you should try reading the bible then, here i have a few for you

GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.

GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.

GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.

GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.)

GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
(Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.)

GE 2:4, 4:26, 12:8, 22:14-16, 26:25 God was already known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) much earlier than the time of Moses.
EX 6:2-3 God was first known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) at the time of the Egyptian Bondage, during the life of Moses.

GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit.
GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years.

GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil.
HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.

GE 4:4-5 God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's.
2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.

GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.

GE 17:15-16, 20:11-12, 22:17 Abraham and his half sister, Sarai, are married and receive God's blessings.
LE 20:17, DT 27:20-23 Incest is wrong.

there a tons more, but why make a 5 million word post.

enjoy

well yes, they were inspired "by" god to write Scriptures.
Now, I haven't yet found any "inconsistencies" myself...
Also, there are at lest 39 Different Versions of the Bible,

[SIZE="1"](These are JUST my Thoughts and a bit of my research nothing else) [/SIZE]

Just my thought on that:

If you include Adam and Eve, inflicting the original sin: God punished us all to die...

However, would have we ever been born if it didn't happen? Would it have been a punishment?

Moving on, Jesus sacrificed himself to save us from that, and forgive us... Becoming that what represents good, after all that he was before.

Would an ommnipotent being really be driven by emotions? Jesus was sent to save us... From a God that didn't mind to kill us all on a flood once? Or when he simply extermined a city that was too greedy? Jesus, being God himself, too, didn't mind in forgiving a man that was too greedy, or not acting against those who killed him...

Of course, I only picked one part, and without too many knowledge.

It's just that I don't feel like everything told holds by itself too much... Like if, in case that was real, there were lots of stuff missing.

To me, so to speak, we are part of a universe somebody imagined. Something like we are nothing more than thoughts for that other being. Reality is quite hypotetical to begin with...

to be quite honest i don't have very much faith that xbish will actually read what i am going to say. he has demonstrated reluctance to read other posts in depth; i guess i am not really replying to him.

if i am wrong (and i may well be) and xbish was being sincere, i would encourage him to read the following post several times before posting more "contradictions." a more careful attitude to the scripture would solve much of his confusion.

to the rest of you: i am not perfect but i hope God can use me to help to dispel one or two doubts you might have had before. ultimately my struggles are for nothing really unless God moves you, and besides i am too exhausted to focus on the most important thing in this post. this does make me sad but i can't do anything about it as i am not God.

unfortunately, when you feel helpless or hopeless or meaningless in your life i'm not capable of solving your problems and i certainly can't do anything about your insecurities or eternal life. the matter is between you and God.

GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

please quote the passage and highlight exactly what the problem is. i do not see a contradiction here.

GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

if you have noticed, genesis follows a summarising-expanding pattern. the first verse "God created the heavens and the earth" summarises the entire creation pattern. the rest of the first chapter expands how he does this. genesis 2 uses what was explained in genesis 1 to orientate. also let's be picky about this. trees? let's quote:
"and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth [c] and there was no man to work the ground," i see no reference to trees. note that "shrub of the field" implies cultivation - that is, no one had planted things in fields. sure there might be PLANTS. but not in "fields" which implies man-sourced horticulture.

GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.

again, please see the summarising-expanding pattern. again, genesis 2 i quote "Now the LORD God [b]had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name." this does in no way suggest any sort of sequence, especially as the two verses you cite are in completely different paragraphs. it is like saying "obama was elected president of the united states. now, since the united states had been split into 50 states, obama was given the authority to rule over all 50 of them." again i do not see a contradiction here.

GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.

see above. this is what happens when a very long work is taken out of context. i will explain again: genesis is orienting the reader, reminding us "remember that this has already happened, so that the next part makes sense." refer the obama/united states analogy.

GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.

i believe that's nowhere in the bible:
"Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them."
- i do not see where it says "at the same time". i don't think there is any sort of dissension that God created man first then woman later. it also says in verse one "God created the heavens and the earth" - i see no misinterpretation claiming that he had to create them instantaneously at the same time there, either.

GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction.
LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.)

what's wrong with purification? would you not want to be clean after all that blood? please cite where it says purification makes childbirth a sin. i would hesitate to say that sterilising surgery equipment makes surgery a sin.

GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.
(Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.)

creation disobeyed him. i see no reason why he wouldn't be displeased. if creation were sinful and he were still pleased with it, that would be inconsistent with a pure and holy God. i would be much more alarmed if the God i was worshipping were able to be persuaded away from his perfection.

GE 2:4, 4:26, 12:8, 22:14-16, 26:25 God was already known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) much earlier than the time of Moses.
EX 6:2-3 God was first known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) at the time of the Egyptian Bondage, during the life of Moses.

i don't know about this system of quoting outside of context, but since you have quoted them i will address them now
gen 2:4 says "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.
When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- "
gen 4:26 says "...At that time men began to call on [j] the name of the LORD."
gen 12:8 says "From there he went on toward the hills east of Bethel and pitched his tent, with Bethel on the west and Ai on the east. There he built an altar to the LORD and called on the name of the LORD."
gen 22:14-16 says " So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided."
15 The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, "
gen 26:25 says "Isaac built an altar there and called on the name of the LORD. There he pitched his tent, and there his servants dug a well."
and
ex 6:2-3 says "God also said to Moses, "I am the LORD. 3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, [a] but by my name the LORD [b] I did not make myself known to them. [c]"

the note at the bottom of exodus 6:2-3 says that the hebrew was "El Shaddai", not "Jehovah." where does it say Jehovah in your version?

GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit.
GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years.

"surely you will die" this clearly refers to future time. i do not understand how this is not future time? before adam ate the fruit, he would live forever. when he ate the fruit, as of that day, he would no longer live forever and he would certainly die. note the original passage:
"but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." - if you see a contradiction in your version please let me know.

GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil.
HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil.

genesis 2:15-17 is when God tells Adam he must not eat from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, or he will surely die. being able to tell good from evil means you now have responsibility to do so; and being human, he cannot, which means he will sin and die. note that Adam was not always knowing good and evil. he and eve are the only people who have ever not known good and evil. every other person in the world knows in their heart when they feel guilty about something and when they do not (unless they are so desensitised that they no longer care: that's not the same.)
gen 3:4-6 is quoting the serpent, paraphrasing God.

hebrews 5:13-14: "Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil" Humans have ALREADY fallen from perfection and thus now have a responsibility to know good and evil. Genesis refers to when they have NOT fallen from perfection and do not have that responsibility. every person after adam and eve DOES have that responsibility. Hebrews encourages believers to learn discernment between good and evil, because that is required to become closer to God (not the only requirement, but if you do not care what good and evil are, you have no desire to know God anyway.)

GE 4:4-5 God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's.
2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.

1 cor 4:5 "Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts." your verse:

"In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor."

God sees the motives and true desires of men. abel's offering is different from cain's in that abel's was the best of his stock. abel gave his best to the LORD. the word "but" indicates that cain did not, the scripture only says cain's offering was "some of the fruits," suggesting not his all. you know, what you do with your possesssions and bank balance is a pretty good indicator of who is most important in your life. abel's offering showed that he loved God more than his own possessions. cain's offering saved the best for himself. God doesn't want our "sunday self" or "loose change." he wants the best of us, because that shows we are putting him first in our lives. any less than this is insincere sacrifice. cain's offering was not pleasing to God.

ro 2:11 let's look at the wider verse context here.:
"But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism."
this passage (which has been taken out of context if we just look to verse 11) clearly refers to discrimination. some jews at rome thought that they were better by virtue of being jews, and this allowed them to boast and be prideful and unrepentant. verse 11 indicates that this is not true and that God judges all equally: by perfection, whether your own, or Jesus'. in a way, the jews were demonstrating a "cain" type sacrifice: "i'll go to church and instruct others and receive the praise, and humility and submission before God can sort of take a back seat." in that sense, God emphasises clearly how nothing we do can change his standard. cain's "second rate" sacrifice did not change his standard, and the jews' "self-righteousness and condemning others" did not change his standard. far from it:
[b]"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." - mt 5:48

GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is.
PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.

i present you the doting mother, who has found Jessica's shoes in the rubbish bin: "Jessica?"
"Mummy?"
"Where are your shoes?"
"I don't know."
"Did you lose them? Tell me the truth."
"I don't know."

if you can envision that conversation between a parent and child, you will understand that there is no mysterious contradiction if God is truly a father, which the bible says he is.

GE 17:15-16, 20:11-12, 22:17 Abraham and his half sister, Sarai, are married and receive God's blessings.
LE 20:17, DT 27:20-23 Incest is wrong.

when abraham and sarah marry, the nation of israel has not been constituted yet. if you want to delve a bit deeper, jacob, abraham's grandson, actually had an encounter with God and after it, he was renamed israel. this is symbolic of the nation of israel following from his line. the commands in leviticus and deuteronomy are given after israel has been constituted: or else there would be no one to give commands to.

i mean, modern people might say "if you don't have Jesus you won't be saved." do we take that out of context and say "oh, moses didn't believe in Jesus, does that mean he's not saved?" there is a context for everything that we cannot simply remove, or we are being pretty flippant about the scripture. a sense of timing is useful when we are claiming the scripture is wrong.

i don't know about this system of quoting outside of context, but since you have quoted them i will address them now
gen 2:4 says "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.
When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- "
gen 4:26 says "...At that time men began to call on [j] the name of the LORD."
gen 12:8 says "From there he went on toward the hills east of Bethel and pitched his tent, with Bethel on the west and Ai on the east. There he built an altar to the LORD and called on the name of the LORD."
gen 22:14-16 says " So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided."
15 The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, "
gen 26:25 says "Isaac built an altar there and called on the name of the LORD. There he pitched his tent, and there his servants dug a well."
and
ex 6:2-3 says "God also said to Moses, "I am the LORD. 3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, [a] but by my name the LORD [b] I did not make myself known to them. [c]"

the note at the bottom of exodus 6:2-3 says that the hebrew was "El Shaddai", not "Jehovah." where does it say Jehovah in your version?

I realize you are prob directing this at xbish,
I've got a few different bible books at home; (at college atm)

"The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures"
"King James Version of the Holy Scriptures" [SIZE="1"]<- I think thats the book name, I'll have to check that at home later[/SIZE]

This is a interesting topic, I would like to see what others think =)

i read it and all i can see is you see what you want too see and i see what i want to see. the bible is open to interpretation. now the bible is a book writen by men for men, put together by a bunch of men from the church. no gods were involved in the creation of this book. remember many other religions have books like this. if yours is real, so are theirs.

now some advice, when you try to convey point ot a non beleiver, saying things like you going to hell, salvation will escape you or quoting the bible means as much as a stale cookie. try quoting scientific facts, journals, darwin, something that has meaning to us. you see i fi want to convey a point to you i use the bible because it means something to you, but unless you can prove that the bible is actually a holy book with data other than that included in the book itself, there is no point in keeping this up. there been plenty quotes about evil, mistakes and contradictions in the bible, you dont want to see them, and that is fine, it would shatter your beliefs to do so, i understand. but prove me wrong with something that actually means something to me not to you.

until then, good day sir.

i said good day.

when someone asks a question, i answer it. hope you will appreciate my sincerity.


unlike most people i happen to be cursed with deficits in mature theory of mind (long story short, i am autistic). i am sorry that i have difficulty thinking unselfishly and wish with all my heart that i could. if you hate me for this, so be it. all i can do is be honest to God and repent before him.
If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. - jn 15:18

i dont hate i love, even people that cant read others posts like you i love.

i dont hate i love, even people that cant read others posts like you i love.

you say you do not hate and that you love. in the same breath you insult me.

yes, i deserve that, and worse. i am flawed in many ways, ways you don't even see because you have not seen me in real life and how badly i act. if there was ever a sinner in this world it's me. i can honestly say i am the worst of sinners, something you do not have the right to say of me, because i know my flaws and deep down, i am a horrible, horrible person. worse than you, worse than anyone i have seen on this forum.

i say it because it's true. why else would i say it?



i do not think you would say the same of yourself, even if you deserved it.

do you want a whip for your self flagelation lover boy?

i am a girl.

no thank you.