2012-02-19, 10:19 PM
Heidi Wrote:But yeah, see the confusion there? It's very tough to understand what is Agnostic and what is Gnostic when you take into account personal view point.
It's a personal choice.
- Do you believe that God is knowable?
- Can you know God's desires?
- Would you be willing to share your knowledge of God's current desires with others?
An great example of a Gnostic claim would come from the UCC, the United Church of Christ, whose slogan is "God is still speaking". This is a Gnostic claim because the leaders of the UCC know what Gods wishes, wants, and desires are and how that changes over time.
It's very easy to apply agnosticism to Christianity.
1. All people have sinned.
2. Sin is the gap that keeps us from knowing God. <--- Key premise!
3. Therefore, God is unknowable.
Most non-denominational and collegiate christian groups are agnostic.
Kalovale Wrote:Since it concerns my own belief, I'd voice my skepticism for this interpretation.
1/ The deistic god is the other type of god. It simply exists out of this world and pushed things into motion instead of having characteristics attributed to the God of Abraham: omnipotence, omnipresence, etc... It would be inaccurate to classify deists as theists since theism deals with God in one or the other form, and even when the deistic god was around, they were in very few ways similar.
A belief in a god is a belief in a god. Anyone that believes that some higher power existed now or any time in the past is a theist. People that believe in Vishnu and Shiva are theists, just as those who believe in Satan are theists. It does not matter what attributes or stories are part of a god, any belief in a god will earn the title of theist. You can't escape the cartesian plane.
Quote:2/ How does the god not being present make it unknowable? If deists one day prove that something indeed did jumpstart the universe, wouldn't that be knowledge? We don't really see charges but that doesn't mean we don't see their electrostatic effects and study them to conclude their existence.
It's pretty hard to know of a god's wishes, wants, or desires when he never makes himself evident, isn't it?
Yes, that would be knowledge, but that would be entirely opposite of what deism is. Deism is an agnostic belief. If Deists were to suddenly gain knowledge of a god's existence, then their presence is knowable, and thus you are no longer a Deist. You can't have it both ways.