Unwashed ranged classes are a waste of time?

At least there's some people here that see my point.

First of all, if you took my post as flaming, I'm truly sorry. I wasn't flaming you, nor did I have any intentions of it being seen as such. I'll counter the point you're trying to make more thoroughly and less "cruelly" then.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that we will, indeed, have 4800 HP at level 200 without any type of HP washing or blooding. Fair enough. Things you will not be able to do with this amount of HP (that we have in GMS):

- Pink Bean

Yes, that's it. If you're thinking HT is out of the question, you're wrong. You should never exclude HP equips. You can safely HT with 48xx HP. The only thing is you'll have to wear an HP equip or two until the Legs + Wings are dead. The rest you can survive with only HB.

You mentioned Pap bombs. It is true they do a lot of damage if they use their Att Up buff. However, it's not 5k. Assuming you're wearing pretty standard gear and a Zhelm, it's only going to be around 47xx-49xx damage, tops. Yeah, that's quite risky with only 4800 HP. If you're good at Pap, you will almost NEVER get hit by or even SEE a Pap bomb power up. I so rarely see them power up that I often forget they can. If you absolutely want to avoid such an accident, wear an HP equip or two. Not a big deal at all.

Bosses such as Anego, Bigfoot and Tengu are the same type of difficult for ANY ranged class that doesn't uber wash (8k+ base). Simply, we can't get hit. Haha. Washed or unwashed, killing these bosses is either through skill or with friends. Being unwashed doesn't matter at all for them, so you can't use them as a con for being unwashed. Uber washing merely makes them easier (allowing you to tank a hit).

Area bosses are all EASILY doable with 4800 HP, so not a problem.

Time Temple bosses are all doable with 4800 HP, as well. Dodo is pathetically easy. Lilynouch is very easy if you're good at using Puppet + watching for Damage Reflect. Lyka is safely doable as long as you're very careful + good with Puppet. Just don't get hit by him when he's powered up.

Did I miss anything?

For training, you may have to wait longer to go to certain places, but you can still go everywhere eventually. Washing just helps people stay at more comfortable HPs, use better pots (and/or sooner) and access more dangerous spots earlier. The only place that is really going to be hard to manage (until like 18x) is Chief Oblivion Guardians, which isn't a big deal.

So what am I missing? I honestly want to know what your side is. I think I countered everything reasonably. Closing point: Unwashed characters are NOT a waste of time. Not at all. In fact, they may even be more rewarding in the end because you'll get to know you didn't take the easy route. You stuck to your guns and played through the difficulty of lower HP. That's one way to see it.

it's OTHER people's Damage whore-ness that keeps us from doing that. Why take Mr. "too poor to wash" who wasted 50 AP in to HP when we have Jimmy Moneybags over here who washed his character 5 ways from Sunday and has 1000 HP more than the other guy without doing crappy damage.

Don't like this argument. You should never let other people keep you from doing things. So what if you can't join some elitist f'aggot HT or PB group because they want someone stronger? Screw them. I wouldn't WANT to be part of a group like that. It's stupid that the MS community contains a large number of such people, but that's what we have to deal with. Don't let them affect your enjoyment.

And again...50 points into HP is not going to make your damage crappy. Goodness people! You'll be weaker, yes, but your damage will still be great, as long as your equips aren't clean or just plain stupid and your skills are maxed. We don't all need to be BEAST. I think it's that horrible mindset that makes us think our "damage" is never good enough...or crappy...