Feedback Unleashed: Part IV - I am my hair

The average unfunded player doesn't have any PDR ignore. Even if they did, those amounts would be so tiny (or come from very few sources) that the PDR changes are hardly going to affect them. The people being hit are the middle-class players (such as yourself).

Please stop trying to use the lower class as a pretence for your whingeing.

Then, there is the problem of scale on which this occurs as well. An unfunded player losing 30% of his damage is a going to be hit a lot softer than a funded player losing the same. 70% of pomegranatety damage is still pomegranatety damage, and won't make or break your bossing (assuming you'll be bossing at all in the first place). For other intents and purposes, where PDR does start mattering, it would be the middle-class at bosses. That's where the majority of the complaints are coming from.

That's cool. But saying that the unfunded are getting hit hard? That's hardly going to earn you any sympathy points.

20% PDR over whatever your mob's Defence Rate is. The average mob? 20% at most. If you think that 4% damage is going to make a difference when training, then all the more power to you.

20% PDR is what the mobs have.
50-100% PDR Ignore is what an unfunded player has.
So we're talking 10-20% less damage, which does make a difference when training on mobs you can't 1-hit.

Wait, so you're assuming that under this new PDR formula, players who had 50-100% ignore suddenly have 0% now?

If you're starting to get riled up, cool your head.

Read it again after that.

Do you know how PDR works?

(snip)

Whether that makes a difference or not will depend on the class itself and the mob you're going up against. I'd like to think that the scenarios where the lost damage from the new PDR formula actually make a significant difference are very few, given how disproportionate player damage has been compared to mob HP ever since Big Bang.

Disturbing how you sweep the "lower class" under the rug. edit: But yes you're right we're hit little.

Alright, I'm here to check numbers, and I don't think everyone's going to like this. I'm a little surprised by the result too.

Consider several variants of mobs with PDR of:
10% (standard mob 1)
25% (average mob PDR)
35% (Future Ereve party play mobs)
50% (Normal Hilla, CZak, Magnus, CHT)
70% (Chaos RA bosses, Vellum, Pink Bean, Old Cygnus, Old Chaos Magnus)
100% (New Cygnus, New Chaos Hilla)
120% (New Chaos Magnus)
180% (Chaos PB).

Note that most of the new normal RA bosses are raised to about 60% (check extractions for that) so... yeah less damage for you. Most people training will consider the first 4 mob PDRs, and most people bossing will consider the last 4 mob PDRs. You should be able to estimate and intrapolate for bosses not mentioned e.g. HT etc.

 Math Explanation

The formulae for the old and new PDR are as follow:

Old: 1 - PDR(1 - SumofIgnorePDR)
New: 1 - PDR(1 - IgnorePDR1)(1 - IgnorePDR2)(...)

For the sake of convenience, I define a PDR reduction factor as the stuff that is going to be multiplied onto the PDR, namely:

Old PDR Reduction Factor: (1 - SumofIgnorePDR)
New PDR Reduction Factor: (1 - IgnorePDR1)(1 - IgnorePDR2)(...)

The greater the difference between the old and new PDR reduction factors, the bigger the discrepancies in %DMG between the old and new calculations.

Your decrease in DPS is simply 100% minus the New:Old ratio (or 1 minus that, if you prefer it in decimals).

[spoiler="Poor" unfunded people, IgnorePDR = 60%]

Ambition (Level 50)	Light Wash (Level 2)	Hob PQ set	Most passive skills	Old PDR Reduction Factor	New PDR Reduction Factor
5%	15%	15%	25%	0.4	0.5147

Mob PDR	%DMG after PDR (Old)	%DMG after PDR (New)	New:Old ratio
10%	96	94.85	98.8
25%	90	87.13	96.81
35%	86	81.98	95.33
50%	80	74.26	92.83
70%	72	63.97	88.84
100%	60	48.52	80.87
120%	52	38.23	73.51
180%	28	7.34	26.21

It will be fair to say that the average player will not likely hit level 100 Ambition, nor Light Wash level 3. Leafre set may be be out of reach to them if they can't find a PQ, if they can even survive HT in the first place. Considering only 1 passive skill (say Marksmanship) a respectable 60% IgnorePDR is achieved in the old system.

In this bracket, you're probably going to train and level at standard mobs, maybe even going Future Ereve while killing Hilla once in a while.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler="Average" unfunded people, IgnorePDR = 100%]

Ambition (Level 100)	Light Wash (Level 3)	Leafre set	Skill with big IgnorePDR	Old PDR Reduction Factor	New PDR Reduction Factor
10%	20%	30%	40%	0	0.3024

Mob PDR	%DMG after PDR (Old)	%DMG after PDR (New)	New:Old ratio
10%	100	96.98	96.98
25%	100	92.44	92.44
35%	100	89.42	89.42
50%	100	84.88	84.88
70%	100	78.83	78.83
100%	100	69.76	69.76
120%	100	63.71	63.71
180%	100	45.57	45.57

Kind of a hardworking guy, say a Luminous because he mobs like crazy so it's easy to level. Since IgnorePDR is 100%, by the old system you would always be doing full damage, so the New:Old ratio is the same as the column for New PDR.

In this bracket, you're probably consistently training at Future Ereve and some other standard mobs/bosses to get away from the boredom. You would probably do some bossing too, but you probably can't kill Chaos Hilla...
[/spoiler]

[spoiler="Average" unfunded people, IgnorePDR = 100%, 40% -> 2 x 20%]

Ambition (Level 100)	Light Wash (Level 3)	Leafre set	Most passive skills	Potential Line	Old PDR Reduction Factor	New PDR Reduction Factor
10%	20%	30%	25%	15%	0	0.3213

Mob PDR	%DMG after PDR (Old)	%DMG after PDR (New)	New:Old ratio
10%	100	96.79	96.79
25%	100	91.97	91.97
35%	100	88.75	88.75
50%	100	83.94	83.94
70%	100	77.51	77.51
100%	100	67.87	67.87
120%	100	61.44	61.44
180%	100	42.17	42.17

Investigating what happens if you have 100%PDR, but instead of it coming from one big skill, it comes from a standard passive skill and an average potential line.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler="Funded" people, IgnorePDR = 160%]

Ambition (Level 100)	Light Wash (Level 3)	Leafre set	Skill with big IgnorePDR	Potential Line 1	Potential Line 2	Old PDR Reduction Factor	New PDR Reduction Factor
10%	20%	30%	40%	35%	25%	0	0.1474

Mob PDR	%DMG after PDR (Old)	%DMG after PDR (New)	New:Old ratio
10%	100	98.52	98.52
25%	100	96.31	96.31
35%	100	94.84	94.84
50%	100	92.63	92.63
70%	100	89.68	89.68
100%	100	85.26	85.26
120%	100	82.31	82.31
180%	100	73.46	73.46

Say you're kind of funded, you have equipment that gives you IgnorePDR. You're probably a bosser, but you're probably also trying to level to 250 too at the new maps.

See the spoiler below for splitting up that 40% IgnorePDR.

 Spoiler

Ambition (Level 100)	Light Wash (Level 3)	Leafre set	Most passive skills	Potential Line 1	Potential Line 2	Potential Line 3	Old PDR Reduction Factor	New PDR Reduction Factor
10%	20%	30%	40%	35%	25%	15%	0	0.1566

Mob PDR	%DMG after PDR (Old)	%DMG after PDR (New)	New:Old ratio
10%	100	98.43	98.43
25%	100	96.08	96.08
35%	100	94.52	94.52
50%	100	92.17	92.17
70%	100	89.04	89.04
100%	100	84.34	84.34
120%	100	81.20	81.20
180%	100	71.81	71.81

[/spoiler]

Conclusions:
- Funded players, don't complain that unfunded/middle-class people get hit less hard, because for the same mobs, you're not.
- Middle-class players, ouch.
- Poor players, life goes on.

I find it hard to sympathise with the funded people, because in the first place we're fighting different things.

Some of your words are true - poor people training at most standard mobs only experience up to 3-5% decrease in damage, whereas middle-class and bossing players get hit really hard in what they do. But maybe you'd like to rethink the rest of your words.

(For the record: I belong to the unfunded middle-class, but I don't HT or Cygnus, and I can't down VL either.)

edit: this stupid table thing again... leme fix it. Tables are fixed.

edit2: More relevant opinion - scale that damn PDR for mobs and bosses. You've already buffed their HP like nobody's business, so don't give us a triple-whammy.

edit3: Fixed a typo (thanks Sapta), made the explanations a little clearer.

Hadriel