England riots

I'm not trying to undermine my stance here. This kind of violent "protest" and looting is horrendous. But what good is peaceful protesting going to do? We all know how viable that solution is. It isn't.

On one hand, I'm not surprised that they think peaceful protests won't work, the last 2 major peaceful youth protests all managed to do absolutely nothing. (Those being the huge campaign against tutition fees increases, which in the end tripled, and against Education Maintence Allowence which is being taken away, both of which I participated in, as did many university age people across the country), however we got lots of media coverage and interviews without resorting to violence.

When you start throwing bricks, the bricks become the message, not whatever it is you want changed. T hey should be dealt with as such, though hopefully its looking to be quieter tonight, but its oly just getting dark now, so we'll see...

Edit: from a guardian reports twitter feed:

100 white men, 30s-40s, sprinting along Hertford Rd. Shouts of "Get the Pakis."

Great, now we have people rioting back against the people rioting, and its become racism, just what we needed to diffuse the situation.

[video=youtube;fsRwwQJdKjE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsRwwQJdKjE&feature=player_embedded[/video]

You get stuff like this too. Injured guy (i presume by a rioter) gets helped up only to have the contents of his backpack stolen.

Theres Rioting reports now in Bristol, where i live. Seems to have escalated to the point where other towns are viewing it as a chance to raid stores for free stuff.

Man every day I wake up sh'it is starting to get worse now.....this is looking like the 1992 LA race riots in some way or form.

Can't they just bring in the military and use strong-arm tatics to take everything out? =\

No because that would be the government being bureaucratic asshats that are seeking to control the citizens with their clear blatant overstepping of power and would be considered too totalitarian.

They shouldn't be protesting anyway, peaceful or otherwise. a bad man who did bad things was killed trying to do bad things to good people. Why protest over it? It's like when Raoul Moat went batshit and went and killed a load of people because he was "pushed to the edge" by his cheating girlfriend or something. People all over England were calling him a legend because he was able to outrun the police, and when he was killed, people were UPSET, started calling him a hero. It was completely sickening.

The sense of authority in this country is down the toilet. They all hate, abuse and protest against the police force, yet still get upset and demand help when they are in trouble. The police should just disappear for a while to teach them all a lesson when the country goes to hell >_>

They are protesting because this was clearly a racist act on a black man that happened to be resisting arrest with an armed resistance.The White police should not have killed the man because he was innocently going to get his gun to forfeit to the police. He was a good man that would never do such a thing.

(That post was not to be taken seriously if you hadn't noticed).

This happened in the Oakland case too >.> a black man was shot by a white police officer and people "violently protested" because it was clearly an act of racism (especially when the person is reaching for something in his pocket when the police say put your hands behind your back and stop resisting arrest). IMO people only get shot when they deserve to get shot at.The case in Oakland being an exception because it was deemed an accident (police was reaching for his taser; wrong hand = gun). If the dude pulled an automatic weapon/loaded firearm, of course legal use of force was necessary in self-defense. And people in Oakland wanted the BART police to stop carrying guns altogether because it's a more peaceful solution and doesn't kill- because killing is unnecessary especially when you have to be within a certain range to have the taser actually hit. Make SOOOOO much sense to shoot someone with a taser when they have a gun.

Wait, wait, wait, you guys dont see the problem here? Regardless of whether the man is a drug dealer or not, the police shot him with no reason. Yes, he had a gun, but the report says it was wrapped in a sock! The only bullet fired at a police officer came from a police issued firearm, and the only other bullets recovered/accounted for were all in his chest. How is that not a problem? Regardless of a person history, the police cant go around shooting everyone just because theyve had past run-ins. The police force in England has been under fire for corruption for awhile now. There would never have even been a protest if this was just some drug dealer that pulled a gun on the cops. The REAL problem is that people are still going around saying things like

Wait wait stop arguing about if rioting is okay or not and clarify for me the reason the riot started.

Article said police shot Mark Duggan = a black drug dealer with a gun. So they started a riot over something like that??? Am I missing something?

this and dont seem to have a problem with it. Just a couple days ago in Mississippii a guy gets assaulted and ran over with a truck ONLY because he was black. So im guessing he probably deserved it right? He was just gonna turn out to be a drug dealer anyway i guess, and they should all just DIE. Theres no evidence that Duggan was doing anything wrong when he got shot beyond carrying a gun, something thats done by countless people of every race around the globe daily. We should prolly shoot all of them too. The point of the protests has nothing to do with his background at all, and honestly, it has little to do with him. Its about police officers killing a man on principle rather than on evidence.

All that being said, the current looting and destruction of property is stupid, is does nothing but illegitimizes a movement that was actually meritworthy. But when you place the kind of societal pressures that have been boiling up there on people for long enough and then provide a spark like this, shits gonna hit the fan. Sure, he was guilty of probably alot of things, but neither you, me, or the police get to decide that he should have died for it.

Possessing a real fire-arm out in public is bad enough, pulling it out when being confronted by a policeman? thats clearly with some kind of intent, he could have easily have kept the gun hidden until it was taken off him in a search, so he's either guilty or stupid. The policeman/men that shot him are also obviously at blame, but no manner of police training can prevent someone from reacting when a gun is pulled out in front of them, especially since gun crime doesn't seem to happen a lot here (as far as i am aware, i'm not a police officer).

Regardless, since the riot itself no longer has anything to do with this, all we are doing is beating a dead horse here.

See, the problem with that is the fact that the police themselves are also humans- Fight or flight. If the guy pulls a gun are you going to care about what happens if you do? Hell no! You're going to be like "HOLY MOTHER OF JESUS HE'S GOT A FRICKEN GUN.wtp DO I DO???" First instinct would probably shoot to live or run the hell away. It doesn't matter the race of the guy (unless the police looked at him because he was black; that is a problem), if your see a gun pointed at you, of course you want to remain alive. The argument i guess, for these "protesters" that is, would be that the police didn't need to shoot him- even though he had a gun, that had the potential to harm the police officers, he should have been stopped using a less than lethal weapon (aka a taser), which, IMO, does not make sense considering my above statements.

Whats needed is a truly accurate account of what actually happened, because I just don't see any logic in a man pulling a gun out while he's surrounded by policemen that he knew were following him. He sends a text message saying he's being followed, gets stopped by police and then decides to just whip out a gun? That makes no sense to me. This is a person thats already been arrested before, let me remind you. All i'm saying is that, he clearly already knows the process and procedure of an arrest and there would be no reason for him to pull that gun out. Were there any eyewitnesses other than police? Why was there a police issue bullet in a cops radio? The situation is fishy regardless.

But, as someone said before me, the topic at hand is the riots themselves, andas Ive said before, theyre no longer about this incident or any other for that matter. If anything, they just show the severity of the economic pressure thats on these people, low-income communities threatened with job cuts in an economic recession are going to jump at any bone they can, and this whole thing shows that perfectly.

Whats needed is a truly accurate account of what actually happened, because I just don't see any logic in a man pulling a gun out while he's surrounded by policemen that he knew were following him. He sends a text message saying he's being followed, gets stopped by police and then decides to just whip out a gun? That makes no sense to me. This is a person thats already been arrested before, let me remind you. All i'm saying is that, he clearly already knows the process and procedure of an arrest and there would be no reason for him to pull that gun out. Were there any eyewitnesses other than police? Why was there a police issue bullet in a cops radio? The situation is fishy regardless.

Some people never learn, which is why there are repeat offenders. Only he can explain why he would do it. From our view, it seems fairly obvious that you shouldn't whip a gun out with police tailing you. And that's another thing that the police have against them if (when?) they get a trial- it's their word against his since possibly no one else saw or hear anything, leading them to probably be freed on no jail time or probation or anything. Police bullet in the radio would suggest that: the police officers shot at each other (lol) or a bullet ricocheted off something and still had enough kinetic energy to pierce the radio. Also possible dead guy was using a police issued weapon/bullets, not too hard to do that either.

Then there's movie logic where they'd much rather die than become dead at the hand of something larger than them (like a cocaine ring or something).

Rioting still doesn't give anyone reason to loot. This is what i found most stupid and ridiculous about the Oakland riots. not only did they have nothing to do with the reason for the protest, but it also interrupted innocent peoples' store fronts, robbed them of their honest efforts, and made them scared for their own personal securities. I mean, they fricken tried to rob SEARS and a Foot Locker for crying out loud.

My highstreet was just completely looted, buildings are destroyed. Sad thing is that the economy is going to take a large hit from this, making the economic situation even worse. And this :

ITV Reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?
Young Londoner: You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?
ITV Reporter: ...
Young Londoner: Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you.

I have to agree with this peaceful protesting dose nothing.

I believe the first shooting occured near/ inside a cab, so there should be at least one witness, and possibly video/sound recorded footage depending on the cab company

Some people never learn, which is why there are repeat offenders. Only he can explain why he would do it. From our view, it seems fairly obvious that you shouldn't whip a gun out with police tailing you. And that's another thing that the police have against them if (when?) they get a trial- it's their word against his since possibly no one else saw or hear anything, leading them to probably be freed on no jail time or probation or anything. Police bullet in the radio would suggest that: the police officers shot at each other (lol) or a bullet ricocheted off something and still had enough kinetic energy to pierce the radio. Also possible dead guy was using a police issued weapon/bullets, not too hard to do that either.

Then there's movie logic where they'd much rather die than become dead at the hand of something larger than them (like a cocaine ring or something).

All true/possible, but this guy had four kids, and his neighbors/family all vouch for him being a pretty good guy. I mean obviously he was a criminal, but that's not always synonymous with being a bad person in this day and age, people are often forced to make decisions that don't have any obvious right choices. Plus, wasn't it said earlier that his gun wasn't police issue? Iirc it was a gun that shot blanks but was modified to shoot live rounds. I'm reaching the point where I don't want to believe the media on principle, I've seen the way they can twist things out of control immediately following an incident, and its nothing short of RIDICULOUS in some cases. I don't think we'll really know anything for a long while. Not to mention it was said that the inquest could take MONTHS before anything is definitively decided.

[video=youtube;rk-SzlsxFw8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk-SzlsxFw8[/video]

at least someone has some common sense...

[double post....-_- my b]

GET THE PS3'S NOW WHILE YOU CAN~
[video=youtube;fepOQ5J-pz0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fepOQ5J-pz0[/video]

Police have been given authorisation to use plastic bullets, as well as more armoured cars and told to take a more aggressive stance against rioters now. Supposedly spurred on due to the start of vigilante action

A poor homeless man got beat brutally to death in the US by 6 officers a couple weeks ago, where's our riots?

A poor homeless man got beat brutally to death in the US by 6 officers a couple weeks ago, where's our riots?

Our riots?
Hell, we've got riots.
We've got riots against common sense.
Just look at the fucking Tea Party in DC.

A poor homeless man got beat brutally to death in the US by 6 officers a couple weeks ago, where's our riots?

you answered your own question, this country runs on money, but i guess with recent events, it might be the lack thereof

I read this insightful article about the England riots today: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/a...1il4a.html

There are serious, systemic issues that have been left unaddressed for far too long. It is not that surprising that the riots have been started by poor, uneducated youths, who grew up in a political environment that has completely neglected and shunned them, and who are angry and apathetic.

People who have support networks and a sense of place in society don't generally riot. It's important to consider the wider context of what might drive a group of people to do this, rather than just focusing on what triggered it.

This is stupid.

My highstreet was just completely looted, buildings are destroyed. Sad thing is that the economy is going to take a large hit from this, making the economic situation even worse. And this :

ITV Reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?
Young Londoner: You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?
ITV Reporter: ...
Young Londoner: Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you.

Peaceful protests with less than 10,000 people maybe get a spot in your newspaper. Rioting gets world wide recognition. While I'm sad to see it's in the London area, I'm glad that something might actually be changed in their government. The way things are run there mirrors the other super powers of the world, and hopefully this will be the beginning of a world wide government takedown. They have too much power.

Beating and robbing innocent people up and stealing is not a protest of any kind. Neither is breaking into stores and stealing stuff. These people seem to have zero braincells left.

They can't attack against people they protest against so they attack on people and stores who don't have a crap to do with anything?

How the hell can any of you support this? Are you out of your mind?