School = Brainwash?

Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

Not sure if agree.

Now, maybe the quality of education varies by region (although in any case CA is one of the worst states), but I've been inclined to believe that schooling is good and that general education has inherent value.

Then again, I'm also one who doesn't buy into the system yet doesn't get trampled by it. I lost my straight A status in freshman year but I've kept it up ever since without special attentiveness, while others comparable to me or worse stress over every point they can get, not even stopping at 100%. I pursue what I love and what I'll need to love, not what looks good on my resume. But what about the rest?

The way some people go about their education is silly, to say the least, and worthy of the article's criticisms. But they're led into thinking that it's necessary. Is it really? Or are they just misguided?

Hmm.

Funny thing is, I'm reading papers some kid wrote in my school ~5 years ago stating the same exact thing (not like word by word, but they have the same point). Funnier thing is that he went to NYU.

Unfortunately my friend takes every second of everyday to explain how the education we receive sucks. Someone else annoys the pomegranate out of me because they think that taking Community College classes make him more intelligent by default.

If our school only recognized intelligence and not "Top 10" I would feel more honored to be our Valedictorian. Luckily I get to give a speech, but as Student Government President.

In my opinion, not everyone has the same education or educational experience. However, there is a common basis we all share and as a general rule we can use this knowledge to function. Higher learning certainly creates a huge gap between universities and the education you receive. However, in high school and the like there is truly nothing you can do if public schools are your only option. All you can do is suck it up and prepare for college those four years.

Slaves always hate the system. Ironically if we choose to take the valedictorian's words at face value, then why should we care for the words of a slave? Think about this, you're highly stressed out and you've finally gotten what you wanted. When you have the time to present this big speech, you have almost nothing to lose as all your friends are going to different colleges around the world that are likely overpriced and not worth the loans. So what do you do? Complain about how broken it is on the outside and not so you seem conceited, but explain how the system broke you on the inside. Because it's not your fault that you're broken, but the system.

But now, I have successfully shown that I was the best slave. I did what I was told to the extreme. While others sat in class and doodled to later become great artists, I sat in class to take notes and become a great test-taker.

School's only necessary if you want to have a better chance of getting into a better career. I'm going to college because I want a better chance of getting into a decent job that pays more. That is it. Truthfully, I think that some classes are necessary for your career, while some aren't. I still don't understand why my university is forcing me to take "Arts & Humanities", as well as "United States history" in order to graduate even though I am an IT major. I would understand taking Mythology classes, because of the usages of symbols. I would understand why Math is an absolute must, I can even understand why taking Speech & English courses would be beneficial, but not classes that aren't even correlated to your career.

Also, similar to how a piece of paper never really meant anything. We gave it a symbolic meaning and representation. Dollar bills = a form of currency. We give it a value, and that's why we treat it with utmost importance. I would like to say that "school" is the same (note that I didn't say "Education"). Gaining knowledge is great, ...only if you're making use of it. What's the point of gaining knowledge that you think you'll never be able to use?

Of course, I attend college like a lot of people. It doesn't mean I have to like it, nor should I expect myself to change my views near the future.

I think that school's one of the only things that measures intelligence objectively. After all, how can you know where you place intellectually if you never tried some sort of means of measuring it?

I think that school's one of the only things that measures intelligence objectively. After all, how can you know where you place intellectually if you never tried some sort of means of measuring it?

I forgot where I've read-up on this, but there's different types of "intelligence". If I ever find the sauce again, I'll post it on here. Until then, I'll refrain from commenting in regards to this. ^

Do you ever know how much knowledge will be useful down the road? Do you think that you'll actually be getting a job as an IT major? Do you think that you'll actually be happy for the rest of your life just being a server operator, system operator, or networks adviser? Most humanities courses will be useless, except for a small subdivision that requires statistical analysis and graphical interpretation. To be honest, data assembly and rate mapping is cross-applicable to numerous fields. Whether measuring the rate of enzymatic catalysis through Michaelis-Menten or the crude birth rate / crude death rate, seeing graphical trends and abstracting how the original equation would look from a derivative would be an important skill in any field.

So many students study something and think they'll get a job relevant to that interest. But the thing is, you never really learn anything terribly significant in undergrad. You're not given adequate funds to practice experiments more than once, not able to use the best equipment for your thesis on chaperone proteins, and you're never really treated seriously by anyone in the University regardless of how smart you appear to be. When you want to be involved with professors, you'll most likely be blue balled after they initially promise you a wonderful time in bed. College exposes you to several truths that make you realize that you could be the smartest guy in class... but that doesn't mean anything to anyone... including the professor. You could also really want to participate in research, but it doesn't mean that you'll ever get an adequate opportunity to perform in the environment of your choice. The University itself is a giant bureaucratic system where paper pushing, thesis mongering, fund cutting, and other sorts of everyday office politics gets in the way of genuine research. And undergrads are nothing more than an extra sore on most professors' "To Do List."

School is for meeting people. Meet as many people you can, and don't piss them.

Do you ever know how much knowledge will be useful down the road? Do you think that you'll actually be getting a job as an IT major? Do you think that you'll actually be happy for the rest of your life just being a server operator, system operator, or networks adviser? Most humanities courses will be useless, except for a small subdivision that requires statistical analysis and graphical interpretation. To be honest, data assembly and rate mapping is cross-applicable to numerous fields. Whether measuring the rate of enzymatic catalysis through Michaelis-Menten or the crude birth rate / crude death rate, seeing graphical trends and abstracting how the original equation would look from a derivative would be an important skill is any field.

That's like asking me: "Do you think you'll ever have a kid in about 10 years?"

I don't know.

\



It's unclear whether I'll get a job or not, but I'd rather not be overly pessimistic or optimistic. Also, I doubt a lot of people are actually 100% satisfied with their career. Regardless of which career they'll start off on, it's going to be rough somewhere along the road. I don't think the point of having a career is to have fun with it, but to find one that you'll think is a lot more rewarding or pertaining to your own interests. I don't even know anybody that would say "Yes, my job is very fun!" unless they test video games for a living or something.

Even if I would come across a point in time that I would require the knowledge from my Humanities courses, by that time, I'd probably forget about it anyways. The only thing I care enough about now would be to in-take a lot of information as much as possible that's related to my choice of major. I try to learn as much as I can about technology, but I don't think I'd care about learning about the history of .. Western Civilization. Even if situations like that were to arise, if I wasn't interested in enough, not like I'd bother to find a resolution.

I think that school's one of the only things that measures intelligence objectively. After all, how can you know where you place intellectually if you never tried some sort of means of measuring it?

Tests measure how well you take tests. Homework measures how willing you are to skip other things.

That's the cynical view which I subscribe to some extent but my deeper belief is, knowledge is knowledge and it's good for you and that's why you should learn, not because of a test score or a transcript or a degree or a paycheck. And that's independent of the system.

School is for meeting people. Meet as many people you can, and don't piss them.

This, too. When I think about the future, leaving education for the workforce, I get depressed thinking that the only people I'll ever meet then are... coworkers.

This, too. When I think about the future, leaving education for the workforce, I get depressed thinking that the only people I'll ever meet then are... coworkers.

Yes, universities serves as a 2nd and unintentional effect ; Meeting potential partners. That's one of the best perks of being in college, d'hohoho.

These days, learning new information drives me insane. I'm attempting to retain 30 subjects and 100+ techniques while being tested on new theories / techniques every semester. When I have the time, I'll try to piece it all together.

Homework measures how willing you are to skip other things.

Disagree with this one. Homework is meant to build good habits for the future. Sure, most low paying jobs won't ever require you to work from home or stay late in the office but if you even aspire to have a half decent job then being willing to put in overtime is extremely important in your success.

Just realised that I didn't really clarify my point. Homework measures how willing you are to work hard to be successful.

Tends to be subverted a bit in college though as exams tend to be the center-point for grade distribution. Hard-work tends to be a moot point in comparison to tested knowledge comprehension.

I don't even know anybody that would say "Yes, my job is very fun!" unless they test video games for a living or something.

Speaking from experience, even this has it's ups and downs. There are occasions I enjoyed myself, but for the most part, it is still work, just like any other job. Think of running through the same game, beating it 3 times each day, and playing it for 3 months straight. Then of course, there's test cases. If anything, it ruins you for typical game playing. Testing is not the same as playing after all. I can't see corners in game the same ever again.

As a counter point, you run into all kinds of interesting people there. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm glad it is something I've done, but even that is not something I could do for life.


On the topic at hand; I have yet to read the OP's link, however from what I've read of the discussion I typically have to agree that the system is not exactly the best as it stands. In particular, I have the disadvantage of poor test taking skills, and even worse memory. I had the highest test score average in calc based mechanical physics since we were allowed one hand-written page of notes last semester, yet I have a D in entry level college Spanish right now which I actually took back in high school (testing ginkgo as we speak). I'll also admit to having more issues besides my memory at the moment, but even after telling myself not to stress out over things that I'll never use and generally have no interest in, I always seem to fall back into that pressured feeling whenever I'm behind in the course material. Seeing as I can't change my mindset on the matter without pursuing medical aid, I suppose that would qualify as brainwashing.


As much as I don't like my grandfather from my mother's side, he has had a discussion with me on this topic that I agree with him. He was raised between the middle-east, European, and African schools and he never understood our system of general education and why we took so dang LONG in getting to the point of specialization. The way I was raised, I personally wanted to be a jack of all trades, but such jobs don't exist in the real world so now I have to decide upon specialization as I move forward. As he mentioned, I believe that if I had been pushed into specialization at an earlier time, I wouldn't have had as much trouble. Granted that could also be attributed to my parents, but I digress.

I feel I wrote this rushed, and that I've left a few contradictions in there, but that's basically my input for the subject.

Disagree with this one. Homework is meant to build good habits for the future. Sure, most low paying jobs won't ever require you to work from home or stay late in the office but if you even aspire to have a half decent job then being willing to put in overtime is extremely important in your success.

Just realised that I didn't really clarify my point. Homework measures how willing you are to work hard to be successful.

That's true, point conceded. I don't like to admit that because much of the time, I'm not so willing to work.

Can a person survive without a proper education. Yes (not necessarily live the "penthouse suite" life ) but they can survive.

An school education IMO does not guarantee success.
~ My father was a college drop out but now makes near 6 figures (like 75k a year) working as the chief of staff for our congressional district.
~ My grandfather on my mothers side was an inventor (apparently made false teeth or something) and was able to buy a house for my mother and her sister (my aunt) when they we're young adults (this was a black man in the early 70's doing this (owning 3 House... 3 floor houses too), that's a f**king accomplishment!)

I really hate it when people say stuff like "the only way to succeed is to go to college". Granted some base education is needed for some things but it's not something that has to be learned in school.
As far as "brain-washing", i don't agree. Their are certain things that HAVE to be taught in order to succeed in certain fields and in some instances that can't be taught at home or anyplace besides a textbook (then again with the internet now-a-days that might be argued against).

Slaves always hate the system. Ironically if we choose to take the valedictorian's words at face value, then why should we care for the words of a slave? Think about this, you're highly stressed out and you've finally gotten what you wanted. When you have the time to present this big speech, you have almost nothing to lose as all your friends are going to different colleges around the world that are likely overpriced and not worth the loans. So what do you do? Complain about how broken it is on the outside and not so you seem conceited, but explain how the system broke you on the inside. Because it's not your fault that you're broken, but the system.

I worked the pomegranate out of that system and still hated it. In at least some cases and in some ways, it goes a bit deeper. For example, one of the things I hate the worst about us public schooling is the way history, particularily U.S. history is taught. One specific I'll take from world war II. The holocaust was atrocious ending it was right. Gloss over america pussyfooting about entering the war. Heaveir gloss on the conclusion of the war. The atomic bomb put the world on a far more dangerous teetering brink than Hitler ever did. And using it a second time may have been one of the most awful decisions any man has ever made. Yet, the main thing students take away from learning about the cold war era is how corrupted communism became. Not the harsh realities of a post-fission bomb conflict. M.A.D. is toted as what keeps us from all out nuclear conflict. It's like living in a leaky house made of pomegranate because it's better than getting rained on if the rain were also pomegranate. Glossing over the negatives in your own history spoils the point of studying history entirely.

I never stated that the educational system was flawless and I believe that everyone has had their own problems. As you grow up, it becomes easier and easier to spot inconsistency, inefficiency, and incompetence in organized functions from various levels of governing structure. With issues such as history, the conclusions that we are able to formulate today are largely thanks to hindsight and being able to accumulate all the variables that have been presented. Therefore, even though one of the many issues that is stressed in high school classrooms are the implications of introducing the atomic bomb and how that parallels modern day issues such as disarmament and especially the Cold War that ensued, the emphasis put on historical outcomes remains a personal decision.