Lukless or normal luk

Lukless is much much cheaper and tends to put out a higher magic total.
Really there is no reason to go LUK- unless you have tons of mesos and do the appropriate planning (base luk with HTP Zhelm Luk from MW luk from other equips which equips to maker- whether to use randomizers and just INT crystals or INT and LUK crystals).

Lukless is much much cheaper and tends to put out a higher magic total.
Really there is no reason to go LUK- unless you have tons of mesos and do the appropriate planning (base luk with HTP Zhelm Luk from MW luk from other equips which equips to maker- whether to use randomizers and just INT crystals or INT and LUK crystals).

AND you are not an I/L or F/P

Lukless is much much cheaper and tends to put out a higher magic total.
Really there is no reason to go LUK- unless you have tons of mesos and do the appropriate planning (base luk with HTP Zhelm Luk from MW luk from other equips which equips to maker- whether to use randomizers and just INT crystals or INT and LUK crystals).

You're not lukless if all of your gear requires luk to wear. Just really low luk. It's pretty clear that for the same amount of funding, a luk Bishop using level 78+ Maker'd gear will outdamage a lukless one. The only reason it's different for AMs is because 130 ele wands exist.

You're not lukless if all of your gear requires luk to wear. Just really low luk. It's pretty clear that for the same amount of funding, a luk Bishop using level 78+ Maker'd gear will outdamage a lukless one.

I am low-luk.
I am not going to say that low-luk isn't SLIGHTLY stronger MOST of the time.
But really.
If you screw up just a few things it all goes to crap.
And Lukless really has an edge on simplicity and more so on how CHEAP they are.
Really a lukless mage and especially a lukless bishop is easily the cheapest class in the whole game to play.
Oh and as far as usefulness in bossing and training a lukless bishop would easily be the highest.
...
Spam int- wear int- spam heal- spam Genesis.

Lukless = Base 4 Luk. Doesn't matter how much Luk Gear you have.
<leaves thread before this argument starts again>

You're not lukless if all of your gear requires luk to wear. Just really low luk. It's pretty clear that for the same amount of funding, a luk Bishop using level 78+ Maker'd gear will outdamage a lukless one. The only reason it's different for AMs is because 130 ele wands exist.

no...just no

It is all subjective depends on the gear of both mages you can't just pull shyt out of your ass and say "a luk Bishop using level 78+ Maker'd gear will outdamage a lukless one" without ANY proof at all

no...just no

It is all subjective depends on the gear of both mages you can't just pull shyt out of your ass and say "a luk Bishop using level 78+ Maker'd gear will outdamage a lukless one" without ANY proof at all

I can easily say that pure lukless is cheaper, easier (stat allocation wise), and provides numbers reasonably close to any luk- or low luk counterpart.
And for these reasons- if you aren't sure just pumping INT until you are is the best course of action.

Lukless is only cheaper if you're talking about startup gear only. You can be lukless with clean gear. Lukless is better for most of 1st - 3rd job, because you can't wear the high level stuff yet. So yes, it is a good idea to start out lukless and convert once you have a little money. You can't say one build is cheaper than another, because to compare them you want to use equal funding. With equal funding, luk > lukless. 64 maple weapon = 81 stats clean - 4 = +77 magic. Normal staves = +12. That's a 65 magic advantage. Now let's just assume we're not talking about completely clean, unfunded characters with absolutely no gear and we're in the range of what normal people would use. Compare common items. ZHelm = 15. HTP = 22. That drops the advantage down to 28. Medal. Belt. We're looking at only a little over a 20 stat advantage by being lukless now. Maker'd gear EASILY covers this difference. Just the shoe - you can easily grab 18-20 stats out of a high level Maker'd shoe for less than 100m. Good luck getting a YSS or a level 50 shoe with stats like that for a comparable price. Then you have the weapon, overall, and glove. Not saying you can't make a lukless Bishop stronger than a luk Bishop, but for equal funding in the "average 4th jobber" range (500mish -several bil) luk is pretty much always stronger.

Lukless = Base 4 Luk. Doesn't matter how much Luk Gear you have.
<leaves thread before this argument starts again>

So for a person who's asking whether to go lukless or luk, you'll always tell them lukless is better? After all with enough funding you can have minimum secondary stat on any character. But is it realistic? Do most people have gear like that? What's the difference between a Reverse user and 4 base luk and a Reverse user with 5 base luk if they're using the same items, other than one has more of it scrolled for luk? Three people:

1. Reverse with 5 base luk
2. Reverse with 4 base luk
3. Maple Shine Wand user with 4 base luk

Would you really group the Shine Wand and the Reverse user together instead of the two Reverse users? It may make sense to say those two are the same from a "where did you put your AP" perspective, but the differences is gear used and the numbers on the stat screen are massive. Stats in Maple are simple as hell. You either add one stat or you add two (or three for Shadowers). I dunno why people have to complicate things with "low/normal/less" definitions, except maybe for the sake of vanity.

Lukless is only cheaper if you're talking about startup gear only. You can be lukless with clean gear. Lukless is better for most of 1st - 3rd job, because you can't wear the high level stuff yet. So yes, it is a good idea to start out lukless and convert once you have a little money. You can't say one build is cheaper than another, because to compare them you want to use equal funding. With equal funding, luk > lukless. 64 maple weapon = 81 stats clean - 4 = +77 magic. Normal staves = +12. That's a 65 magic advantage. Now let's just assume we're not talking about completely clean, unfunded characters with absolutely no gear and we're in the range of what normal people would use. Compare common items. ZHelm = 15. HTP = 22. That drops the advantage down to 28. Medal. Belt. We're looking at only a little over a 20 stat advantage by being lukless now. Maker'd gear EASILY covers this difference. Just the shoe - you can easily grab 18-20 stats out of a high level Maker'd shoe for less than 100m. Good luck getting a YSS or a level 50 shoe with stats like that for a comparable price. Then you have the weapon, overall, and glove. Not saying you can't make a lukless Bishop stronger than a luk Bishop, but for equal funding in the "average 4th jobber" range (500mish -several bil) luk is pretty much always stronger.

You just said 500mil- bil.
I MIGHT have spent 500 mil in my ENTIRE maple career.
...
But yeah- with funding and STAT planning low-luk is the easy middle ground.
And the trend of AWESOME common class equips it will only make Low XXX build stronger.
But for all stat build purposes pumping pure til 4th job is probably what you should be doing no matter what.
Then based on gear money availability etc. you can plan an end-game build.

Hmm, I could've sworn someone was warning how these type of threads never get to a conclusive answer...

These discussions never really get to a conclusive answer...

Oh, right, that was me

http://www.insoya.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=...sc&no=7385

[SIZE="3"]just check the SS[/SIZE] [SIZE="3"] 142 evan with 18 base luk wearing reserve wep[/SIZE] [SIZE="3"]LOL[/SIZE]

Lol yet he only has a white belt xD

It doesn't really matter, you can have 4 base luk and equips that add up to 123 luk and equip the reverse wand OR you can have say, 60 base luk and have equips that add up to 123 luk and use the reverse wand. As long as the equips are able to be both scrolled for luk and int (and usually you have more options and benefit from int scrolling) it's the same.

Scrolling earrings and shield for luk is a waste since INT scrolls add matk too, so you are left with makering equips with luk crystals, scrolling an overall (which could be scrolled for int as well), the belt and that's it. Also the makered armor should be low level since it's adding all the luk up to 123 luk.

So not a point in having 4 base luk and reverse wand. You either lose up by scrolling shield or earrings for luk OR get the same deal but worse resale value scrolling overalls and belts.

That's the thing with mages, they are so linear there is no debate like for other classes between main stat/second stat/attack. It's all the same as long as you don't have more luk than needed.

I know this isnt really teh discussion but to be honest, a reason I like luk mages is their equips, they look pretty awesome. And really if you're a fp mage youll be misting/brace fomr 50-12x Even beyond that if you want. But thats just me (all of my mages are lukless). I just give more respect to luk mages then lukless.

my stats shows it all. I am high luk. its possible

Just the shoe - you can easily grab 18-20 stats out of a high level Maker'd shoe for less than 100m. Good luck getting a YSS or a level 50 shoe with stats like that for a comparable price. Then you have the weapon, overall, and glove.

Higher level items are harder to scroll, not that a m.atk WG is cheap by any means, but they're a lot easier to mass 30% than your 18 stat magician glove, and each 30% is something like +4 stats over a 70%. Same applies to the overall, you might be able to get high stats but then you have to scroll them. I've seen Shine Wands up to +5 30% +4 60% for sale, how many luk weapons with that kind of stats have you seen? Lukless equips will probably stay more common because there's a larger market for them (anyone over lv.10 can scroll/use a wg or snowshoe).

Maker did help the balance a lot, but it's still tough to compare. Some items (shoes) are easy because you don't scroll them, others aren't.

my stats shows it all. I am high luk. its possible

holy crap man! thats insane!!
may i ask what your equips are?

Mages shouldn't really have to worry about going lukless or normal luk or what not. Just go with whatever makes you happy. Once you hit 120, you'll be doing plenty of level to basically power level yourself from 120-150 easily and have enough magic to be dealing ample amount of damage to whatever you're training on.