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+---- Thread: Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. (/showthread.php?tid=7246)
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - Mejust - 2009-01-10
Note: I made some major edits and added a whole slew of extra calculations.
Maxing Mastery first versus maxing Savage Blow first
I’m gonna run some calculations on different levels with different builds. I will also calculate for multiple monsters.
Toy Trojan
Level 37. This is the level where most people either max Mastery or get 21 into SB, so it’s a milestone of sorts. We will be comparing a Bandit who maxed mastery to a bandit who now has 22 Sb and a bandit who has 21Sb and 1 Mastery
Our bandit will have:
4 Str
4 Int
70 Dex
97 Luk
60 Weapon Attack
Normal damage ranges:
Mastery build: 157-254
SB build: 63-254
21Sb,1mastery: 73 – 254
Damage ranges after W.def Reduction:
Mastery first: 88 - 194
Sb first: -4 – 194
Sb, mastery: 16 - 194
Now I should explain that any damage which is lower than 1, will be made into 1. So that theoretically makes your damage range 1 – 194, but you will in fact have more chance to hit a 1 (because of the negative minimum) than any other number. You have about a 3% chance to hit a 1, over about 0.5% chance to hit every other number in your range. So be aware of that.
With their respective damage skills, the bandits will have the following range and average damage with their respective attacking skills.
Mastery first uses maxed Double stab, dealing 2*140% damage, or 280 total.
This will lead to a range of 247 – 543, with an average of 395
Sb first uses lvl22 Savage Blow, dealing 6*72% damage, or 432 total.
This will lead to a range of -17 – 838, with an average damage of 411
21Sb, 1 mastery uses Sb, dealing 6*71% damage, or 426 total.
This leads to a range of 69 – 826, with an average damage of 448
Level 40. A milestone for those who max Sb first, since this is the level they max it. I will compare a 19 mastery, 12 Sb bandit to a 1mastery, 30Sb bandit and a 10mastery, 21 Sb bandit
Our bandit will have:
4 Str
4 Int
80 Dex
137 Luk
60 Weapon attack (stick with the same weapon till 43)
Normal damage ranges:
19 mastery, 12 Sb: 210 – 346
1 mastery, 30 Sb: 90 – 346
10 mastery, 21 Sb: 144 – 346
Damage ranges after W.def Reduction:
19 mastery, 12 Sb: 144 – 291
1 mastery, 30 Sb: 24 – 291
10 mastery, 21 Sb: 78 – 291
The 19 mastery, 12 Sb bandit will use lvl12 Sb, which does 5*62%, or 310 total.
This leads to a range of 446 – 902, with an average damage of 674
The 1 mastery, 30 Sb bandit will use lvl30 Sb, which does 6*80%, or 480 total.
This leads to a range of 115 - 1397, with an average damage of 756
The 10 mastery, 21 Sb bandit will use lvl21 Sb, which does 6*71%, or 426 total.
This leads to a range of 332 - 1240, with an average damage of 786
Level 43. Also a milestone bandits because it usually is the level they get max mastery and 21 Sb. I will check out the following builds here: 19 Mastery + 21 Sb versus 10 mastery + 30 Sb.
Our bandit will have:
4 Str
4 Int
80 Dex
152 Luk
70 Weapon attack
This will result in a damage range of: 266 – 442 for the max mastery, and 179 – 442 for the max Sb.
Normal damage ranges:
Max mastery: 266 – 442
Max Sb: 179 – 442
Damage ranges after W.def Reduction:
Mastery first: 200 – 387
Sb first: 113 – 387
The max mastery bandit will use lvl 21 Sb, which does 6*71%, or 426 total
This leads to a range of 852 – 1649, with an average damage of 1251
The max Sb bandit will use lvl30 Sb, which does 6*80%, or 480 total
This leads to a range of 542 – 1858, with an average damage of 1200
Same damage calculations on Robos
I will use the same damage ranges here.
Lvl 37
Normal damage ranges:
Mastery build: 157-254
SB build: 63-254
21Sb,1mastery: 73 – 254
Damage ranges after W.def Reduction.
Mastery build: 37 – 149
Sb build: -54 – 149
21Sb, 1 Mastery: -44 – 149
With their respective damage skills, the bandits will have the following range and average damage with their respective attacking skills.
Mastery first uses maxed Double stab, dealing 2*140% damage, or 280 total.
This will lead to a range of 104 - 417, with an average of 260
Sb first uses lvl22 Savage Blow, dealing 6*72% damage, or 432 total.
This will lead to a range of -233 – 643.7, with an average damage of 205
21Sb, 1 mastery uses Sb, dealing 6*71% damage, or 426 total.
This leads to a range of -187 - 635, with an average damage of 224
Lvl 40
Normal damage ranges:
19 mastery, 12 Sb: 210 - 346
1 mastery, 30 Sb: 90 - 346
10 mastery, 21 Sb: 144 – 346
Damage ranges after W.def Reduction:
19 mastery, 12 Sb: 94 – 248
1 mastery, 30 Sb: -25 – 248
10 mastery, 21 Sb: 29 – 248
The 19 mastery, 12 Sb bandit will use lvl12 Sb, which does 5*62%, or 310 total.
This leads to a range of 291 – 769, with an average damage of 530
The 1 mastery, 30 Sb bandit will use lvl30 Sb, which does 6*80%, or 480 total.
This leads to a range of -120 – 1190, with an average damage of 535
The 10 mastery, 21 Sb bandit will use lvl21 Sb, which does 6*71%, or 426 total.
This leads to a range of 124 – 1056, with an average damage of 590
Lvl 43
Normal damage ranges:
Max mastery: 266 – 442
Max Sb: 179 – 442
Damage ranges after W.def Reduction:
Mastery first: 152 – 347
Sb first: 65 – 347
The max mastery bandit will use lvl 21 Sb, which does 6*71%, or 426 total
This leads to a range of 648 – 1478, with an average damage of 1062
The max Sb bandit will use lvl30 Sb, which does 6*80%, or 480 total
This leads to a range of 312 – 1666, with an average damage of 989
Same damage calculations Master Chronos
Lvl 37
Normal damage ranges:
Mastery build: 157-254
SB build: 63-254
21Sb,1mastery: 73 – 254
Damage ranges after W.def Reduction.
Mastery build: 41 – 146
Sb build: -45 – 146
21Sb, 1 Mastery: -36 – 146
With their respective damage skills, the bandits will have the following range and average damage with their respective attacking skills.
Mastery first uses maxed Double stab, dealing 2*140% damage, or 280 total.
This will lead to a range of 115 – 409, with an average of 262
Sb first uses lvl22 Savage Blow, dealing 6*72% damage, or 432 total.
This will lead to a range of -194 – 631, with an average damage of 218
21Sb, 1 mastery uses Sb, dealing 6*71% damage, or 426 total.
This leads to a range of -153 – 622, with an average damage of 234
Lvl 40
Normal damage ranges:
19 mastery, 12 Sb: 210 - 346
1 mastery, 30 Sb: 90 - 346
10 mastery, 21 Sb: 144 – 346
Damage ranges after W.def Reduction:
19 mastery, 12 Sb: 95 – 223
1 mastery, 30 Sb: -17 – 223
10 mastery, 21 Sb: 33 – 223
The 19 mastery, 12 Sb bandit will use lvl12 Sb, which does 5*62%, or 310 total.
This leads to a range of 295 – 691, with an average damage of 493
The 1 mastery, 30 Sb bandit will use lvl30 Sb, which does 6*80%, or 480 total.
This leads to a range of -82 – 1070, with an average damage of 494
The 10 mastery, 21 Sb bandit will use lvl21 Sb, which does 6*71%, or 426 total.
This leads to a range of 141 – 950, with an average damage of 545
Lvl 43
Normal damage ranges:
Max mastery: 266 – 442
Max Sb: 179 – 442
Damage ranges after W.def Reduction:
Mastery first: 156 – 327
Sb first: 72 – 327
The max mastery bandit will use lvl 21 Sb, which does 6*71%, or 426 total
This leads to a range of 665 – 1393, with an average damage of 1029
The max Sb bandit will use lvl30 Sb, which does 6*80%, or 480 total
This leads to a range of 346 – 1570, with an average damage of 958
Same damage calculations for Rombots
Lvl 37
Normal damage ranges:
Mastery build: 157-254
SB build: 63-254
21Sb,1mastery: 73 – 254
Damage ranges after W.def Reduction.
Mastery build: 42 – 146
Sb build: -42 – 146
21Sb, 1 Mastery: -33 – 146
With their respective damage skills, the bandits will have the following range and average damage with their respective attacking skills.
Mastery first uses maxed Double stab, dealing 2*140% damage, or 280 total.
This will lead to a range of 118 – 409, with an average of 263
Sb first uses lvl22 Savage Blow, dealing 6*72% damage, or 432 total.
This will lead to a range of -181 – 631, with an average damage of 225
21Sb, 1 mastery uses Sb, dealing 6*71% damage, or 426 total.
This leads to a range of -141 – 622, with an average damage of 241
Lvl 40
Normal damage ranges:
19 mastery, 12 Sb: 210 - 346
1 mastery, 30 Sb: 90 - 346
10 mastery, 21 Sb: 144 – 346
Damage ranges after W.def Reduction:
19 mastery, 12 Sb: 96 – 223
1 mastery, 30 Sb: -15 – 223
10 mastery, 21 Sb: 35 – 223
The 19 mastery, 12 Sb bandit will use lvl12 Sb, which does 5*62%, or 310 total.
This leads to a range of 298 – 691, with an average damage of 495
The 1 mastery, 30 Sb bandit will use lvl30 Sb, which does 6*80%, or 480 total.
This leads to a range of -72 – 1070, with an average damage of 499
The 10 mastery, 21 Sb bandit will use lvl21 Sb, which does 6*71%, or 426 total.
This leads to a range of 149 – 950, with an average damage of 550
Lvl 43
Normal damage ranges:
Max mastery: 266 – 442
Max Sb: 179 – 442
Damage ranges after W.def Reduction:
Mastery first: 159 – 346
Sb first: 75 – 346
The max mastery bandit will use lvl 21 Sb, which does 6*71%, or 426 total
This leads to a range of 677 – 1474, with an average damage of 1076
The max Sb bandit will use lvl30 Sb, which does 6*80%, or 480 total
This leads to a range of 360 – 1661, with an average damage of 1010
Conclusions
On lvl 37, maxing mastery first is an overall better choice, having the best overall average damage of all possible builds. However, this build will have a dip in their damage at lvl40, where 21Sb, 10 mastery has by far the highest average damage figures. When you make an overall comparison of the average damages though, the 21Sb, 19 mastery comes out as overall superior.
Therefore, our best damage potential can be achieved by 21Sb, 19 Mastery, max Sb.
19 Mastery, max Sb comes in second, perhaps as a most mesos efficient build
Max Sb, 19 Mastery comes in last, As the build with the least damage and lowest mesos efficiency.
Formulas used:
Defense reduction:
Weapon Defense - credit to AGF/Stereo
New MAX = (Old MAX) * (1 - 0.01*D) - WDEF*.5
New MIN = (Old MIN) * (1 - 0.01*D) - WDEF*.6
where D is (monster level - player level) if (monster level) > (player level), and 0 otherwise.
Damage calculation:
Max damage: [(LUK * 3.6 + STR + DEX) / 100]* Weapon Attack
Min damage: (LUK * 0.9 * 3.6 * Skill Mastery + STR + DEX) / 100 * Weapon Attack
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - Stereo - 2009-01-10
If level 22 SB is 72% (max is 80%) then maybe it's better to build like that:
22 SB
19 Mastery
30 SB
Useful addition to this would be to calculate the % increase in damage for each point in the 2 skills. For mastery it depends on the base stats, but for SB you can find an exact number.
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - Kranzorbaken - 2009-01-10
Thats what I did stereo, it's the best build to do. PERIOD
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - ItzTaylor - 2009-01-10
Mastery first is better.
That's what I did.
It takes longer then SB first, I've been told.
But if you're not in a rush, go for it.
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - Russt - 2009-01-10
What weapon def modifier? What you did is exactly what happens. Subtract the defense, multiply by 480%.
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - Dusk - 2009-01-11
Nerds to the rescue!
![[Image: masterysbgl4.png]](http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/311/masterysbgl4.png)
The first graph is damage dealt on a per-hit basis, the second accounts for Double Stab being faster than SB and graphs DPS.
Mastery first: 19 Mastery, 21 SB, 6 Booster, max SB
SB first: 30 SB, 19 Mastery, 6 Booster
The calculations are done for Double Stab until SB hits five times. You'll see a DROP in DPS when SB starts hitting five times, because even though it will do less damage than DS over time, when you train on 1hko monsters DPS doesn't matter as much as per-hit damage.
These graphs become less accurate the more dex/str you have.
Edit: Oops, ignore the little (plot area) thing, I just did screenshots and wasn't paying attention.
Edit 2: Btw, the percentages are based on your maximum damage in your base range.
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - MasPan - 2009-01-11
Dusk Wrote:Nerds to the rescue!
The first graph is damage dealt on a per-hit basis, the second accounts for Double Stab being faster than SB and graphs DPS.
Mastery first: 19 Mastery, 21 SB, 6 Booster, max SB
SB first: 30 SB, 19 Mastery, 6 Booster
The calculations are done for Double Stab until SB hits five times. You'll see a DROP in DPS when SB starts hitting five times, because even though it will do less damage than DS over time, when you train on 1hko monsters DPS doesn't matter as much as per-hit damage.
These graphs become less accurate the more dex/str you have.
Edit: Oops, ignore the little (plot area) thing, I just did screenshots and wasn't paying attention.
Edit 2: Btw, the percentages are based on your maximum damage in your base range.
*Confused how DPS can get LOWER after a level-up (excluding DK's crusher)
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - Russt - 2009-01-11
Savage Blow is slower to use than Double Stab, but deals more damage. Just so happens that at SB 11, the DPS isn't quite as high as DS yet, but it's still worth using in a 1hk situation.
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - MasPan - 2009-01-11
Russt Wrote:Savage Blow is slower to use than Double Stab, but deals more damage. Just so happens that at SB 11, the DPS isn't quite as high as DS yet, but it's still worth using in a 1hk situation.
It's also more advantageous to use while jumping because of a different hit box, correct? (easier to hit with a slash than a stab)
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - Mejust - 2009-01-11
Stereo Wrote:If level 22 SB is 72% (max is 80%) then maybe it's better to build like that:
22 SB
19 Mastery
30 SB
Useful addition to this would be to calculate the % increase in damage for each point in the 2 skills. For mastery it depends on the base stats, but for SB you can find an exact number.
Actually, following that build takes too many sp's. I just took 22SB and didn't bother with 21SB, 1Mastery because the damage hardly made a difference.
Also, I didn't bother with DPM values, because they don't matter. Which is something I should directly quote from a DPM comparison. Your DPM value is not going to determine how fast you train.
and @ russt: I'm not trying to doubt you in this, but it has been a popular argument on Basil, to say that the W.def reduction of SB is spread out over all the hits. So each hit on a maxed SB would receive 1/6th of the damage reduction. Anything to confirm or disprove this?
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - TLeviathan - 2009-01-11
Mejust Wrote:and @ russt: I'm not trying to doubt you in this, but it has been a popular argument on Basil, to say that the W.def reduction of SB is spread out over all the hits. So each hit on a maxed SB would receive 1/6th of the damage reduction. Anything to confirm or disprove this?
Isn't that the common understanding of this though?
6(.80Y-.80w.defRed.)= 4.80(Y-w.defRed.)...
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - Mejust - 2009-01-11
Notice I've revised the comparison considerably. Any mistakes I've made?
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - Derimed - 2009-01-12
I don't see what the cause for big argument is, considering that getting to 70 nowadays is considered fairly easy, and pretty much everybody will agree that both SB and Mastery will both end up maxed.
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - Russt - 2009-01-13
Mejust Wrote:and @ russt: I'm not trying to doubt you in this, but it has been a popular argument on Basil, to say that the W.def reduction of SB is spread out over all the hits. So each hit on a maxed SB would receive 1/6th of the damage reduction. Anything to confirm or disprove this?That's a crude simplification.
Think of it this way. Your damage range is 1000. Defense subtracts 200, leaving 800. Then SB is 80% per hit, so your damage is 6x640.
Without defense, it'd be 6x800, so you're losing 160 damage per hit.
Now say with the same damage range you use Assaulter, and let's also pretend that it doesn't ignore defense (for convenience
). Then with your damage range of 800 after defense, you deal 450% damage for a total of 3600 in one hit.Without defense, it'd be 450% of 1000 or 4500, so you're losing 900 damage per Assaulter.
You could say it's "split" across the hits, but that's not exactly true. Everything is accounted for if you just straight compare damage percentages. Defense does not discriminate.
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - WeeItzSandra - 2009-01-13
Just go sindit till you max both...problem solved.
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - Shidoshi - 2009-01-13
WeeItzSandra Wrote:Just go sindit till you max both...problem solved.
that's probably a poorer option
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - Mejust - 2009-01-13
It might be a poorer option, but it's still an option.
I see another revision coming at some point in time o.o
Mastery first vs Sb first. A comparison. - Kabanaw - 2009-01-13
I got mastery to 19 and then got 6 booster.
My rational was that DS is faster already, so DS with booster would be a lot faster.
But now I'm level 52 with 6 booster, 9 haste, 19 mastery, and 30 SB so none of that really matters.