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+---- Thread: Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] (/showthread.php?tid=6913)
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Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Kawasari Mimoto - 2008-12-30
Doing a little test to see which is more effective. I think Ilbies in general, are really over-used because of their cost and attack power. A notch above an Ilbi (15m on average) would be a Crystal Ilbi, and that ranges from 8Xm-10Xm, depending on your server.
So people pick Ilbi, right? Seems logical. Here's the thing, I've been doing a little bit of thinking, and I'll gladly be the 1st nut of a Night Lord to do this and probably get mocked and laughed at. Anyways, since most or all NLs starts out with only Lv 1 Shadow Stars (which is about 1 min / 60 secs of unlimited stars), I figured:
"Wouldn't Steelies benefit it more since I'll last longer at training AND Zakum?"
The above statement does not apply to Horntail, because by the time a NL is ready to HT, the NL is probably 15X and has at least lv 5+ Shadow Stars.
In some of the Zruns I went to, a lot of attackers died, and I was one of the few that was still alive. I 'did' use Ilbies at that time, but I find out that I run out of stars faster with Ilbies (and using Shadow Stars) in comparison to Steelies (with Shadow Stars).
Comparison:
Steelies
1200 Stars per USE slot
Cost in FM = 5m on average
Ilbies
1000 Stars per USE slot
Cost in FM = 15m on average
+2 more attack than a Steely
So really, is 2 more single weapon attack more useful than -10m less AND 1 more extra minute of Shadow Stars (lv 1)? Some funded Night Lords out there might agree that it does, I really don't think it does because if you run out of stars, you're pretty much screwed.
For now, I'm using strictly Steelies as an experiment to see how long I last at training AND Zakking in comparison to Ilbies. I have moderately-decent gear, so I'm not worried about my damage. Even without using Ilbies, I can be on-par with the average NL at my level, if not, slightly better.
Suggestions and opinions, go!
EDIT: If you're training at areas like Newties, you'll be with a Priest, which has 'Mystic Door', so you won't have to worry about how long you last in training if you have Door. All Priests do, so that's one slight advantage of an Ilbi that I forgot to list.
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Takebacker - 2008-12-30
Sounds logical to me. 2 attack never made that much of a difference in my opinion.
Besides, if an illbi NL ran out of stars and you could still keep going, who's laughing now? o_o
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Bucket - 2008-12-31
Problem with that there is nobody really runs out during Zakummonster runs anymore. Even those who wimp out and don't carry as much stars as we did before 4th, a million and one things have to go wrong if Zak takes more than an hour~ or so and even without, let alone just one in Shadow Starses you'll manage without dying out, unless you have a really pathethic amount at which point I'd tell you to go out and buy a few more stars.
It may sound sort of sensible in theory, but realistic application doesn't really matter because you wont run out at just about any longer taking boss, (of which we have a whole two) and during training can get doored now and then. Personally I used Tobi forever because I'm neat and had better things to spend moneymesos on, and not so much for the whole extra 200 which isn't all that much in the end anyway.
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - DrRusty - 2008-12-31
how much would a 2 atk upgrade cost anywhere else?
upgrading 2 atk on a claw could you cost millions -> hundreds of millions.
2 atk on a glove? 10 atk is 50m, 12 atk is 170m, 14 atk is 500m, 16 atk is 1.3 bil.
2 atk on a cape or stompers? don't get me started on that one
get the ilbis
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Kawasari Mimoto - 2008-12-31
DrRusty Wrote:how much would a 2 atk upgrade cost anywhere else?
upgrading 2 atk on a claw could you cost millions -> hundreds of millions.
I'm not too worried on this, I'm rather gutsy when it comes to scrolling Cravens. I've broken 11+ Cravens, including my original 59 attack one (before the mass-deflation of Cravens AND Claw scrolls).
2 atk on a glove? 10 atk is 50m, 12 atk is 170m, 14 atk is 500m, 16 atk is 1.3 bil.
I have a 15 att SCG right now, and yeah, I don't plan on getting a better glove.
2 atk on a cape or stompers? don't get me started on that one
Doubt I'll be Chaos-Scrolling anytime soon.
get the ilbis
Answers in bold, in all honesty, I'm not too worried about attack power. I've seen what my Night Lord can do with a Balanced Fury and Crystal Ilbies (I have a bunch of C-ilbies in case I need to sell them off to buy Ilbies, or etc.). If I want attack, I'll just stick to my C-ilbies.
I'm looking more-so for quantity for the moment, training with lv 1 Shadow Stars is a hassle, try it with 12-16 sets of Ilbies and see how annoyed you get. Once my Shadow Stars is lv 15, I'll switch back to Ilbies, most likely.
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Stereo - 2008-12-31
DrRusty Wrote:how much would a 2 atk upgrade cost anywhere else?
upgrading 2 atk on a claw could you cost millions -> hundreds of millions.
2 atk on a glove? 10 atk is 50m, 12 atk is 170m, 14 atk is 500m, 16 atk is 1.3 bil.
2 atk on a cape or stompers? don't get me started on that one
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone thought about this logically... say you have 20 sets of Steelys. That's 24000 stars. So (using the same prices as above - 5 and 15mil) you'd have to go from 100mil to 360mil to upgrade them.
260mil on 2 atk is quite a lot... and I'd guess most of the people I see throwing Ilbis do not have a claw worth that much. Whatever, they waste their money on Ilbis and I'll buy other gear.
I'm still using Tobis cause upgrading my claw 2 atk is gonna be about another 40mil. I guess once I hit Night Lord the money will start rolling in and I might go for Ilbis...
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Avenge - 2008-12-31
Takebacker Wrote:Besides, if an illbi NL ran out of stars and you could still keep going, who's laughing now? o_o
You act as if they can't just go recharge them...
You shouldn't switch out your stars because your skills are low level... just level up more and add SP.
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Kawasari Mimoto - 2008-12-31
Avenge Wrote:You act as if they can't just go recharge them...
That's the entire-keypoint of my entire post. You cannot recharge at bosses. You cannot recharge during the middle of an extremely long PQ (though there isn't one in gMS, because 12 sets is enough). The only advantage is at maps where you will definitely get a Bishop or Priest that is willing to Door you back to town to recharge. Unless you feel like using a scroll to warp back, and having to FJ all the way back to Skeles, which is a pain.
You shouldn't switch out your stars because your skills are low level... just level up more and add SP.
Exactly, but you don't just add more points into Shadow Stars asap. You have to get TT to 20 at least as a minimum. That's at least 7 levels worth of SPs right there, you'd be 127 by then. I'm sure you wouldn't put 14 more points into Shadow Stars right after TT20 either. o_O; Most people would put some into Shifter or Venom.
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Bedhead - 2008-12-31
(Edited out.)
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Bucket - 2009-01-01
Kasuhitomi Wrote:stuff about running out at bosses
Carry a few more sets. You'll gain more stars compared to the extra few from Steelies. No realistic Zak/whatever will make you run out regardless due to the fact they last a tiny amount of time, and you're hardly going to HT at 12x. Problem solved.
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Mega - 2009-01-01
I only use ilbis to boss and steelys to train. If you have a good Zakum party then 3 sets of ilbis would be enough with lvl 1 shadow stars.
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - skylegacy - 2009-01-02
Just keep with what you have khoi, its not worth it, on average i only use about 5 sets 6 MAX on a slow zak run, you have enough stars to zrun and train effectively, i dont see a point in adding past lvl 10 SC anyway
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Takebacker - 2009-01-02
Avenge Wrote:You act as if they can't just go recharge them...
You shouldn't switch out your stars because your skills are low level... just level up more and add SP.
I was talking bosses. Again.
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Kawasari Mimoto - 2009-01-02
Disregarding Bedhead because he missed the entire point, Ilbies with lv 1 Shadow Stars? >_> (Yes, I know, level more, add points to Shadow Stars, blah blah blah, that won't take effect until I'm late 13X).
Anyways, I read a lot of stuff here, and I'll make sure to keep it all in mind. I'm probably going to use a couple C-ilbies sets for 'damage' and a lot Steelies for bossing and training, and when my Shadow Stars is 10+, I'll convert to Ilbies. Either way, I don't really lose anything.. I gain more stars, I lose -2 attack per set. But the price difference helps for now, saving up for a FS anyways. Thanks for everyone's response.
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Avenge - 2009-01-03
Takebacker Wrote:I was talking bosses. Again.
I never ran out at zakum when we still had 3rd job and runs took around 45 mins -1 hour... now you have a skill that SAVES you stars, and runs take 15-30 mins... do you people carry like 5 sets of stars???? Or just don't recharge before you go in? And don't even mention horntail, by time you're high enough level for that shadow stars should be maxed.
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - DamyouAL - 2009-01-03
i see what he saying my inv for HT is this :
24 C ilbis
12 ilbis. - 36 total sets of stars (36 slots)
200 apples (2 slots)
300 all cures (3 slots
1000 power elixir ( 10 slots)
200 pet food (1slot)
thats only cuz we used to take a while. and sometimes i still ran outta stars but if you are in a better server u should have no problems =]
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Dusk - 2009-01-03
I've always wondered how NLs managed with stars in bundles of 1k o_o
I have 24k bullets and shoot 3 at a time, and I still run out in a matter of 4-5 hours :[ Extremely annoying.
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Shidoshi - 2009-01-03
Dusk Wrote:I've always wondered how NLs managed with stars in bundles of 1k o_o
I have 24k bullets and shoot 3 at a time, and I still run out in a matter of 4-5 hours :[ Extremely annoying.
hehe, never ever trained for 4-5 hours straight. my max is around 2-3 hours
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Kawasari Mimoto - 2009-01-03
I use around 12 sets, max was 16. I'm going to slowly upgrade to 24 sets whenever I have time and money. Like I said, I'll use Steelies for now, and go to Ilbies later on. I have the funds to get Ilbies, yes. But I'd rather upgrade my FaceStompers, as well as claw.
Ew @ 55 att Craven + 1 att FS.
Everything else that I have is relatively-decent or average. My gloves will last me for a long time, 15 att SCG. So yeah, I think I'm pretty much set. I'll stick with my plan and see how it goes, if I end up disliking my own plans, I'll post in this thread again to say that I was the wrong one. ;]
Something I've thought about ; Steelies vs Ilbies [w/ lv1 Shadow Stars] - Stereo - 2009-01-03
Dusk Wrote:I've always wondered how NLs managed with stars in bundles of 1k o_o
It's annoying... >_> I go through 18x1200 (~22k) stars in a manner of 100 minutes. Gonna try to MTS/buy NX and bump it up to 28-30 sets asap :x I hate repotting so much.