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+---- Thread: Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job (/showthread.php?tid=5572)
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - Russt - 2008-11-22
So yeah, I figured I'd do this, since this type of question crops up often enough.
Why didn't I compare sins? Simply put, it's more difficult. Sins use a substantially different damage formula, so I'd have to make a number of adjustments. Archers on the other hand have a very similar formula to gunners, which makes for a simpler comparison.
This is ranked from highest to lowest %DPS, as well as color-coded:
4th job (endgame)
4th job (early)
3rd job
2nd job
1st job
Note: Numbers with Expertise/Boost are not fully accurate; I used a 1.25x multiplier as an approximation. The actual increase depends on the exact stats of the characters in question.
Battleship Cannon (with Bullseye) = 380% * 4 * 1.2 / .66 = 2763% per second
Hurricane (with SE and Expertise) = (100% + 132%) * 1.25 / .12 = 2416% per second
Battleship Cannon = 380% * 4 / .66 = 2303% per second
Strafe + Snipe (with SE and Expertise) = ((100% + 132%) * 52 * 1.25 + 95000) / 10.08 = 1496% + 9424 damage per second
16 Battleship Cannon = 290% * 4 / .66 = 1757% per second
Strafe (with SE and Expertise) = (100% + 132%) * 4 * 1.25 / .72 = 1611% per second
Rapid Fire (with Bullseye) = 160% * 1.2 / .12 = 1600% per second
1 Hurricane (with 10 SE) = (51% + 99%) / .12 = 1250% per second
Strafe (with 10 SE) = (100% + 99%) * 4 / .72 = 1105% per second
Burst Fire (with 10 Bullseye) = 210% * 3 * 1.1 / .66 = 1050% per second
Burst Fire = 210% * 3 / .66 = 954% per second
Strafe = (100% + 40%) * 4 / .72 = 777% per second
Bow-Double Shot + Final Attack (with booster) = ((130% + 40%) * 2 + (250% + 40%) * 0.6) / .972 = 528% per second
1 Strafe = (52% + 40%) * 4 / .72 = 511% per second
1 Burst Fire = 115% * 3 / .69 = 500% per second
Bow-Double Shot (with booster) = (130% + 40%) * 2 / .72 = 472% per second
Bow-Double Shot (with crit) = (130% + 40%) * 2 / .81 = 419% per second
Gun-Double Shot (with booster) = 80% * 2 / .42 = 380% per second
Gun-Double Shot = 80% * 2 / .48 = 333% per second
1 Gun-Double Shot = 61% * 2 / .48 = 254% per second
1 Bow-Double Shot = 92% * 2 / .81 = 227% per second
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - Takebacker - 2008-11-22
Helpful comparisons indeed. Thanks. o.o
Far as i know, regardless of their higher % BMs beat corsairs on average damage because of the higher range and mastery.
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - Worthyness - 2008-11-22
Awws archers got owned in dps (this is assuming max bullseye then?) =(
What about total damage for the Corsair with SE, cannon, and bullseye? Just to see how much archers miss out statistically.
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - Russt - 2008-11-22
Takebacker Wrote:Helpful comparisons indeed. Thanks. o.oThe only reason for their higher range and mastery is Expertise, which was approximately included. (lol)
Far as i know, regardless of their higher % BMs beat corsairs on average damage because of the higher range and mastery.
@ Worthyness
SE barely affects Cannon, since they don't have any base critical to work off of.
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - Takebacker - 2008-11-22
Russt Wrote:The only reason for their higher range and mastery is Expertise, which was approximately included. (lol)
@ Worthyness
SE barely affects Cannon, since they don't have any base critical to work off of.
Yeah...how can you include expertise when it only affects range and not % output? O_o
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - Russt - 2008-11-22
Takebacker Wrote:Yeah...how can you include expertise when it only affects range and not % output? O_oAn approximation.
With 60% mastery, total damage has an arbitrary multiplier of 1.54
With 90% mastery, total damage has an arbitrary multiplier of 1.81
1.81/1.54 = 1.175
Adding 10 attack is anywhere from a 4% to a 10% increase depending on equips and apples - that gives anywhere from a 1.22x to 1.29x multiplier. I used 1.25x, which is somewhere in the middle of that range.
Slightly rough, but 4% either way won't make much of an impact on the ranking.
The real reason why BMs have a better overall damage output is because Hurricane + Hurricane > Cannon + Rapid Fire
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - Dusk - 2008-11-22
With the knowledge we have now, how are the tiers for 1:1 damage looking like at endgame levels? Battleship's durability is dependent on level, so it should be lasting really long at level 200. It also lasts longer against weaker bosses (much longer at Zakum than HT or PB). If Corsairs have complete access to Battleship without fear of it breaking, they should be outdamaging even NLs with SE and STed Bucs, I think.
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - Hatsu - 2008-11-22
Did the avoidability of either class get taken into consideration when choosing to show everyone which would be superior in damage for a prolonged amount of time(bossing maybe?)
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - Nesso - 2008-11-22
So at a place like Anego, a Gunslinger is god tier?
I'm also surprised at Rapid fire's damage output. I didn't expect to it to be so close to a Marksman's damage.
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - JakeAndBake - 2008-11-22
Imagine how broken this comparison would be if the Corsair's damage was calculated assumong he had an archer for SE
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - Stereo - 2008-11-22
JakeAndBake Wrote:Imagine how broken this comparison would be if the Corsair's damage was calculated assumong he had an archer for SE
Battleship has a high percentage base, SE would only boost it by 3-4%. The difference from 2763% to 2850% is really not so important compared with Strafe going from 780% to 1100% with 10 SE added.
I'd like to see a sample percentage given for Strafe+Snipe, eg. a typical level 160 range calculated into the damage output to find a specific percent boost for using Snipe.
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - Russt - 2008-11-22
Stereo Wrote:I'd like to see a sample percentage given for Strafe+Snipe, eg. a typical level 160 range calculated into the damage output to find a specific percent boost for using Snipe.Well...
1496% + 9424 damage per second
Looking at this: http://www.damage-ranges.com/?/ranges/marksmen&sniper/120-200/on_on I think I'll give our sample Marksman an average damage range number of 4000. This includes our 1.25x Boost approximation, so taking that off, base damage becomes 3200.
The 9424 raw damage then becomes 9424/3200 ~ 295% damage, which added onto the Strafe portion makes a total 1791%. If Snipe's damage was doubled, a la JMS, we'd have another 295% Sniping damage on top of that, making 2086%.
Compare to Cannon's 2303%/2763% and Hurricane's 2416%.
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - Sylphior - 2008-11-22
what i'm getting at here is that Gunslinger's win. that's what i'm reading here.
i think i saw some more comparisons in your Pirate Misconception thread in basilmarket.com takeback3r, here but they're compared to NLs and Vipers/Buccaneers. still, interesting to see all this(makes me excited for Corsair)
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - LoyalOath - 2008-11-22
I think in the end, it would be pretty even DPS wise since the ship will break down, especially if a boss has a 1/1 pomegranate fit, and when the ship breaks you have an 1100% drop in DPS. However assuming you were in each state an equal amount of time, it would be 2763%+1600% which is 4363% and then divide by 2 to take the average which would result in 2182% per second. I'm not a math guy, so this may be wrong but it seems to add up to me o.O it seems that 90 seconds would be a good aproximate time for a battleship to last in a boss fight but I might be wrong, or it might not apply to a really high level slinger.
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - Russt - 2008-11-22
Well, in order for a Corsair to match a BM, assuming he tanks hits, he would have to be in Ship mode about 70% of the time. Since cooldown time is 90 seconds at level 1, that means it has to last for 211 seconds.
Bit of a stretch at big bosses, but I suppose it could be done, especially if you're able to de-mount before getting hit. At pinnable bosses like Anego, ship durability wouldn't be a big deal and Corsairs would win.
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - LoyalOath - 2008-11-22
Hm that's true. I wasn't thinking about pinable bosses only Zakum and HT, but either way it's still nice to see we're a lot stronger than people say.
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - Corn - 2008-11-22
It really boils down to your level as each level you have a different level of HP. At level 121 you are easily outdamaged as the ship has only 6k HP. However, at level 160 there's an extra 78k HP and that would really last for more than 3 minutes at Zakum (well, it should).
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - Sylphior - 2008-11-22
well, this is only doing % output, but i guess this is all also assuming same/similar lvls.
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - ItzTaylor - 2008-11-24
Wow, nice comparison thread! Props2u.
Gunslingers ftw.
Archer/Slinger %DPS comparison: 1st-4th job - DrRusty - 2008-11-24
Don't archers have higher total ranges than gunslingers? I thought gunslingers had high % attacks due to their lack of Attack Range.