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Pondering early 4th job strategy - rassilon - 2009-05-12
As I write this, my Mage is level 114 and I should definitely be 120 by the end of the Anniversary event. I've been thinking about this a lot, but with only 6 levels before I go from a senior Mage to a nub Arch Mage, there are questions on my mind about what to do when that day comes.
I have read through a couple of "training reference" threads, but they contain much outdated information (especially the one here, as the maintainer gave it up and someone on SW took over who doesn't seem to post here). So training remains uncertain, as there may (possibly) be better places now than there were a year ago. Some skills should be raised differently depending on where you plan to train, so that puts them into question as well.
I can read the old and outdated guides for "tried and true" locations, such as Jr. Newties (which I'm already getting tired of) and some of the Aqua Road areas. Has anyone trained an I/L recently in early fourth job, and if so what were your experiences like? What skills would you recommend doing first, based on how good (or bad) your EXP gain was?
For instance, by 125 I could have either level 17 Blizzard and nothing else, 1 Blizz and 16 Chain Lightning, or something like 5 Ice Demon, 5 Ifrit, 5 Blizzard and 2 Maple Warrior... or still other combinations. :f6:
If it helps, right now I have maxed Ice Strike, Composition, Seal, Booster, and Elemental Amplification; I plan to put the remaining points into Slow and then any leftovers into Partial Resistance. (I am not getting Thunder Spear.)
I'm pretty sure I won't start training with Blizzard right at level 120, just as Ice Strike was nearly useless when I first got it. So should I, perhaps, not even get it right off the bat, but continue with Ice Strike while getting support skills like Ifrit and Ice Demon? Or would pumping up Blizzard to 10 or 15 as soon as possible be good, for maximum leveling speed? I just can't decide, so I'm hoping for some opinions and feedback based on experience.
(TL/DR? Don't reply.)
Thank you all for your advice!
Pondering early 4th job strategy - butterfλi - 2009-05-12
rassilon Wrote:For instance, by 125 I could have either level 17 Blizzard and nothing else, 1 Blizz and 16 Chain Lightning, or something like 5 Ice Demon, 5 Ifrit, 5 Blizzard and 2 Maple Warrior... or still other combinations. :f6:Adding points to ultimates isn't just about adding points since they don't cost like other skills. Only add when you can move from three hitting to two hitting or two to one, etc.
From 120-123 on my AM, I added MW to 9 for leveling up and a slight increase in damage. After that was CL; I didn't train with blizzard till 126 and at 139, I still have only 1 point in blizzard. It's not a necessity to have a high level blizzard; you're already training faster than any other job (aside from bishops) in the 4th job; also, newties will be best for a while--at 15% an hour in the 4th job unless you don't mind slower exp, newties aren't something to be tired of just yet.
Pondering early 4th job strategy - kingdj333 - 2009-05-12
well lemme tell you this ma'am being an AM is a bish but it's also cool.. =)
As for training spots newties are your friend for now.. or you can go to wyverns and 4x there... other than that nothing else cane be compared.. (corrected me if I'm wrong)
Dont get level 17 blizz, it'll just kill you and your pots! save your SP until you hit 130 (you'll have enoguh mp by then) but level 1 blizz is enough to get you through leveling... without blizz training would be 5 times as slow...CL is useless, unless your going to solo pap/other bosses without the mp burn
Ifrit is just another *hi I'm 12x+ and I hafe a cool summon* ot's pointless unless you wanna get that last kill on a monster.... Ice demon is the same thign...
please max booster.. I know guides say level 11 is enough but it really isnt.. it'll die on you quick!
Pondering early 4th job strategy - rassilon - 2009-05-12
@dj: Doh! Yeah, I maxed Booster a while back (after IS and EA, I think) but I forgot to put it down. Go me.
Edited!By "tired of newties" I meant it's boring standing in one place and going Seal, IS, IS, IS... Seal, IS, etc., Seal, loot, repeat for several hours.
Red wyverns are slower EXP but I'm moving around more so it isn't as dull. I need to clock my EXP/hr, but I think I get at least 15% at nudies, probably more in a good party.Hm, I forgot about MW for leveling... so even INT added from a buff counts toward MP bonus? Nice!
@butterfli, did you actually use CL for training? I love the way that skill looks, so it would be tempting to get some points in it early....
Pondering early 4th job strategy - kingdj333 - 2009-05-13
I mean you could get level 1 blizz than start maxing out MW before blizz but it's w/e you like..
the MP boost you gain would be a nice add on for when you max blizz... lol
I feel your pain on the boring maps.. It took me 8 months to get from 73 to 74 because hoodoos was boring.. and that was when I was nx-less (lol wat!?@)
If you have the money you should leech... not saying it's good but you gain levels without being bored..
i would leech you (I leech people for free) but your not in Scania...
Pondering early 4th job strategy - Kabanaw - 2009-05-13
Right now I'm 133 with 5 MW, 15 CL, 10 blizzard, 7 ifrit, and 5 ice demon. I train decently fast, and with a Thunder Staff I do 10k+ on bosses. CL is defenitely the best way to go if you want to boss, plus blizz is really only useful to put skill points into when you get to less hits. I'm planning on having 20 CL, 19 MW, and 15 blizz at 140 which I'll be able to two hiti newties and nearly 100% KB pap with.
Pondering early 4th job strategy - butterfλi - 2009-05-13
Kabanaw Wrote:Right now I'm 133 with 5 MW, 15 CL, 10 blizzard, 7 ifrit, and 5 ice demon. I train decently fast, and with a Thunder Staff I do 10k+ on bosses. CL is defenitely the best way to go if you want to boss, plus blizz is really only useful to put skill points into when you get to less hits. I'm planning on having 20 CL, 19 MW, and 15 blizz at 140 which I'll be able to two hiti newties and nearly 100% KB pap with.
Bossing is boring when it takes 75 minutes to kill a pap at 12x. You get about 2% and likely to get crappy drops. But if you want a bossing build, you're gonna want a few points in ifrit since it increases DPM a lot.
Pondering early 4th job strategy - rassilon - 2009-05-13
Eww, leeching? No way. I prefer to work for my levels, whether I'm grinding solo or attacking 3 newts in the bottom left of a party. I also do not leech others; it's just not the way I play. Anyway, back to the topic...
I like the suggestion of doing MW first. Based on the skill table for MW, I think I'll probably start with 1 CL, 1 MW, then get it up to level 9. I'll check some damage calculators to figure out when Blizzard will be useful for training, but it looks like I could do well with third job skills plus Ice Demon and Ifrit for a while yet.
As for bossing, I'm not thinking of soloing Pap, but it'd be nice to be able to hit it from a greater distance than I can now, and I think CL has a longer reach than Composition. Is that right?
Are lower levels of CL useful at all? I'm thinking of putting that 1 point in it as a quick way to lure monsters (such as wandering nest golems), and then ID and Ifrit as a way to soften up neutral or resistant monsters for higher damage per minute.
Pondering early 4th job strategy - Kabanaw - 2009-05-13
rassilon Wrote:Eww, leeching? No way. I prefer to work for my levels, whether I'm grinding solo or attacking 3 newts in the bottom left of a party. I also do not leech others; it's just not the way I play. Anyway, back to the topic...
I like the suggestion of doing MW first. Based on the skill table for MW, I think I'll probably start with 1 CL, 1 MW, then get it up to level 9. I'll check some damage calculators to figure out when Blizzard will be useful for training, but it looks like I could do well with third job skills plus Ice Demon and Ifrit for a while yet.
As for bossing, I'm not thinking of soloing Pap, but it'd be nice to be able to hit it from a greater distance than I can now, and I think CL has a longer reach than Composition. Is that right?
Are lower levels of CL useful at all? I'm thinking of putting that 1 point in it as a quick way to lure monsters (such as wandering nest golems), and then ID and Ifrit as a way to soften up neutral or resistant monsters for higher damage per minute.
CL's base range is the exact same thing as Comp. However, each hit after the first has a quarter of that, and because of this I've hit many monsters off screen. Lvl 1 CL doesn't lure too well though, since it only hits two monsters with low dmg.
Also remember to unlock Ifrit you need to get lvl 5 ID, and even then it's timer is a piece of crap. Lvl 7 ifrit has a 45 second timer. So basically, what your build would look like is:
120: 1 CL, 1 MW, 1 other skill (I'd suggest blizz, it's good to have at least lvl 1)
121: 4 MW
122: 7 MW
123: 9 MW, 1 ID
124: 4 ID
125: 5 ID (some people put it up to 7 since it hits 3 mobs then, I left it at 5) 2 ifrit
126: 5 Ifrit
127: 8 Ifrit
128: 10 Ifrit (60 second timer, a decent amount), 1 of next skill
After this, I'd start putting points into CL and if you can get MW 20 while they're still low. If you manage to pass one, get that up to 19.
Pondering early 4th job strategy - butterfλi - 2009-05-13
rassilon Wrote:Are lower levels of CL useful at all? I'm thinking of putting that 1 point in it as a quick way to lure monsters (such as wandering nest golems), and then ID and Ifrit as a way to soften up neutral or resistant monsters for higher damage per minute.Training with blizzard would be cheaper than that. Nest golems are a terrible thing to lure and to use ID would just slow you down. Nest golems can attack from almost off screen and not only does ID not hit that far, low level ID hardly freezes them; the 1 second freeze will end by the time you get in close enough range to ice strike or w/e.
And ifrit is terribly blind unless recent patches made it "see" further.
Pondering early 4th job strategy - rassilon - 2009-05-13
OK, so do you guys find Ifrit useful at all? If so, for what?
Also, regarding Ice Demon, I'm not considering it as an attacking skill, but as more of a status affliction like Seal and Slow. The way I understand it, Demon and Ifrit are meant to be used together on things like nightshadows or crimson guardians that would normally take little or no damage, by first weakening them to fire and then allowing Ifrit to pound them. However, I get the sense here that some of you don't find it very useful.
If it's not useful, I might as well leave it until later and just pump up Blizzard or CL.
I'm glad I asked in here; this discussion is giving me some insight into the use of skills I've never used and therefore don't know how or when to use them.
Pondering early 4th job strategy - Kabanaw - 2009-05-13
rassilon Wrote:OK, so do you guys find Ifrit useful at all? If so, for what?
Also, regarding Ice Demon, I'm not considering it as an attacking skill, but as more of a status affliction like Seal and Slow. The way I understand it, Demon and Ifrit are meant to be used together on things like nightshadows or crimson guardians that would normally take little or no damage, by first weakening them to fire and then allowing Ifrit to pound them. However, I get the sense here that some of you don't find it very useful.
If it's not useful, I might as well leave it until later and just pump up Blizzard or CL.
I'm glad I asked in here; this discussion is giving me some insight into the use of skills I've never used and therefore don't know how or when to use them.
It's extremely, and I mean EXTREMELY, useful to have ID for Phantom Forest and CWK. Leprechauns, Elder Wraiths, Typhons, and Nightshadows are all immune to ice. Then there's also Stormbreakers, who are immune to lightning, and crimson gaurdians, which are strong to both elements. ID removes these stregnths, making it much easier to do the quests and get the rewards.
Ifrit is useful, but less for training and more for bossing. And Ifrit's range is pretty pitiful, I think you can hit with CL twice as far with ifrit, so for it to do any damage you need to get right up next to the boss.
Pondering early 4th job strategy - butterfλi - 2009-05-13
Kabanaw Wrote:And Ifrit's range is pretty pitiful, I think you can hit with CL twice as far with ifrit, so for it to do any damage you need to get right up next to the boss.It's range is about as far as the distance you teleport. What you do is walk up next to a boss, cast it then step back lol. If you like to solo pap or other bosses, level 6+ ifrit is nice to have. Else, it's terrible.
Pondering early 4th job strategy - rassilon - 2009-05-13
Ah, I see. That might also be useful for bosses you have to hug to avoid getting owned... either Manon or Griffey is like that, I believe I remember hearing—with one of them you're better off standing on top of him and taking constant damage, thereby avoiding getting either stunned+dispelled or sealed+dispelled, I forget which. Still... not something I'm likely to be doing a lot.
Thanks for the insight on Ice Demon. I had thought it only weakened mobs to fire, but the way you put it makes it sound like (in addition to some ice DOT) it also removes other elemental resistances. (The official skill description definitely makes it sound like it only weakens to fire. "Monsters stricken by Ice Demon become vulnerable to fire-based attacks.") Is the in-game description misleading?
Pondering early 4th job strategy - Kabanaw - 2009-05-13
rassilon Wrote:Ah, I see. That might also be useful for bosses you have to hug to avoid getting owned... either Manon or Griffey is like that, I believe I remember hearingwith one of them you're better off standing on top of him and taking constant damage, thereby avoiding getting either stunned+dispelled or sealed+dispelled, I forget which. Still... not something I'm likely to be doing a lot.
Thanks for the insight on Ice Demon. I had thought it only weakened mobs to fire, but the way you put it makes it sound like (in addition to some ice DOT) it also removes other elemental resistances. (The official skill description definitely makes it sound like it only weakens to fire. "Monsters stricken by Ice Demon become vulnerable to fire-based attacks.") Is the in-game description misleading?
It automatically gives the monster these three elements, only regarding if it's a boss:
Weak to fire
Neutral to ice
Neutral to lightning
ID would be nice if you decided to goby, making it so you don't have to use lollmagicclaw
Pondering early 4th job strategy - Shidoshi - 2009-05-13
I had the impression ID/FD removed ALL elemental resistances AND weaknesses and replaced them with a fire or ice weakness respectively.
Pondering early 4th job strategy - Kabanaw - 2009-05-13
Shidoshi Wrote:I had the impression ID/FD removed ALL elemental resistances AND weaknesses and replaced them with a fire or ice weakness respectively.
I don't know about poison for ID, but you're probably right. But, who cares for an I/L?
Pondering early 4th job strategy - JoshKun - 2009-05-14
Sorry if anyone TLDR o.O
)Pondering early 4th job strategy - rassilon - 2009-05-14
SekushiKun, thanks for the additional info! I do have max Amp, so I'm sure Blizzard will be consuming as much MP as possible.
I would not consider myself "well funded," although I do have more mesos than you did at 120; at this moment I could probably afford an average lightning weapon, but not an ice one. I have a well-scrolled (but not godly) Blue Marine and the rest of my gear is not worth mentioning; my plan is to wait a bit longer before upgrading my weapon, while getting mastery books I may need and saving more for later. This is one reason why I will be closely watching the cost of training with Blizzard vs. other methods; I want to be sure I break even instead of losing my funds. I would be quite happy to 2-hit newties by 133.I am assuming you recommend 19 MW in your second build because of the INT boost both for training and additional MP on leveling. So with this build I would continue training with third job skills up to 127 or possibly beyond, depending on the strength of Blizzard with just a few points in it, then once Blizzard is at 15 it should be strong enough for faster leveling.
I assume this plan is working well for your boyfriend, as 13 levels in two weeks seems pretty good to me!
@Shidoshi: Hm. If the Demons simply remove elemental immunities (i.e., I would no longer hit 1s on elderwraiths with an ice attack), it's still good even if the only weakness they introduce is to the AM's summon.
Pondering early 4th job strategy - Katforks - 2009-05-16
rassilon Wrote:Hm. If the Demons simply remove elemental immunities (i.e., I would no longer hit 1s on elderwraiths with an ice attack), it's still good even if the only weakness they introduce is to the AM's summon.Not sure which it does. But my boyfriend [I/L] says that ID has helped a lot on things that were strong to ice or lightning before that he had to kill for quests.
And yeah, keeping Bliz low until you can do good damage with it is the way to go. Else you'll make yourself broke from using so many pots.