SaptaZapta Wrote:The Jewish armed organizations were illegal terrorists to the British, right up until the day they left. The Brits would raid their weapon hidey-holes and imprison their members regularly. Tanks and planes are not the sort of thing one can hide.
After the British left, the different movements were unified into the IDF, but not without difficulty. (google "Altalena")

As for "way, way past" - first of all, the whole country is tiny. There is no "way, way". But yes, the Jews did try for wider, more defensible borders (the UN partition would have been well for friendly neighbors, but utterly untenable if they insisted on being enemies).

Corn Wrote:They why on earth does Wikipedia say Arab nations were bombed by planes?

wikipedia Wrote:At the outbreak of the war on 15 May, the SA became the Israeli Air Force. With its fleet of light planes it was no match for Arab forces during the first few weeks of the war with their T-6s, Spitfires, C-47s and Avro Ansons. In the first few weeks of the war, the Israelis' light airplanes bombed Arab encampments and columns. The raids were usually carried out at night to avoid interception. These raids usually had little effect, except on morale.

SaptaZapta Wrote:These were not war planes. Not at the start of the war. They were light civilian planes who couldn't do much.

However, as I said, the Jews were prepared for the day of independence, and pre-purchased arms soon arrived from Czechoslovakia and elsewhere to turn the tide of war.
I guess the Jews are evil for having some foresight.
The Arabs of Palestine were not as organized, did not plan ahead, did not declare their own independence or rule of this area, they just attacked - and called the armies of the neighboring nations to help. Did you look at the sizes of the Iraqui, Egyptian, and Jordanian armies and airforces? Can you honestly say Israel swept in with superior military might to take over?

Corn Wrote:Still doesn't justify storming into civilians and taking their housing =/.

Why are we arguing about something that happened 60 years ago again?

Corn Wrote:Still doesn't justify storming into civilians and taking their housing =/.

Why are we arguing about something that happened 60 years ago again?

CrazyForDex Wrote:Because it has relevance to what is happening today in the Middle East....

Corn Wrote:Only reason someone would want to argue about something 60 years ago is to deny the legitimacy of Israel, which I'm not doing.

I'm debating that a majority of Isrealies (or at least, the government) wouldn't let some Arabs back into their homes =/.

SaptaZapta Wrote:I doubt anyone is following this anymore, though.

Sn1perJohnE Wrote:Is it bad that I want to block my dad on facebook for such comments as "So Israel is being bombed by the Palestines with rockets supplied by Iran. And where is our President? In Thailand visiting a Buddhist Temple. Now that's important. Wouldn't you say." and "Israel we apologize for Obama"?

CrazyForDex Wrote:Comments like that really bother me. Your dad should do some research on what Obama has actually done for Israel.

Sn1perJohnE Wrote:Is it bad that I want to block my dad on facebook for such comments as "So Israel is being bombed by the Palestines with rockets supplied by Iran. And where is our President? In Thailand visiting a Buddhist Temple. Now that's important. Wouldn't you say." and "Israel we apologize for Obama"?

DeanNim Wrote:So basically youre saying the arabs shouldve rather died in the attack than leave their homes for their lives and that that justifies the jews for taking the homes that were conveniently there when they attacked. Ok.

SaptaZapta Wrote:I'm curious. What does he think Obama should be doing?

DeanNim Wrote:So basically youre saying the arabs shouldve rather died in the attack than leave their homes for their lives and that that justifies the jews for taking the homes that were conveniently there when they attacked. Ok.

SaptaZapta Wrote:Except that those that stayed didn't die. They became Israeli citizens.

Corn Wrote:Uh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_War

Yes, I'm very well aware of the fact it has both sides casualties on it.

SaptaZapta Wrote:Actually, it doesn't even matter, for the sake of this discussion, what actually happened.
None of them could see the future. It's only logical to prefer to save your life than your property.
However, it's equally logical to realize that anything left behind would be seized by the enemy. Expecting your enemies to be murderers but not thieves is a bit absurd, don't you think?
They were "expecting to return" because they were expecting the Jews to eventually be defeated. That hasn't happened yet.

SaptaZapta Wrote:Nobody stormed into civilians and took their housing. At most, they took housing that was abandoned by its terrified occupants.

Not sure why you are arguing, I am trying to correct misconceptions that paint the Jews of Israel as evil colonial invaders who enjoy attacking innocent Arabs, today or 67 years ago.

I doubt anyone is following this anymore, though.