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+---- Thread: 2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? (/showthread.php?tid=18421)
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - KaidaTan - 2009-11-01
Nesso Wrote:I did not think torpedo was as useful as Cannon. It took like 6 hits at level 1. It's already a very slow skill and you're just wasting time when Cannon is a much 4 hits each.So... 4 hits for 3 monsters is 12 hits. 6 hits is 6 hits for all 3 monsters. How exactly is Torpedo not as effective again? I don't follow your logic.
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - Spideyjvc - 2009-11-01
Daddy20 Wrote:The cooldown is 90 seconds for all lvls of battleship, and your ship's hp increases by 4k for each point you have in it. So lvl 1 ship gives your ship 4k hp, and lvl 10 ship gives your ship 40k hp.
And at lv120 your ship's hp is quite low, so you probably won't be using it much, even if you have 2 cannon. If you want to put 1 sp in each skill, you won't be losing out on much. But if you want to go straight to cannon, then yes you can do that. But during your 12x you will be spending a lot of time off the ship as well, so it might not be as fun as raising multiple skills. Then again it's only a few lvls were talking about here, so you can just do w/e you want lol.
Wait, what? Last time I checked, adding SP into Battleship did absolutely nothing to it's HP. It's your owl level that goes into the Battleship HP formula. Adding points into it just adds defense and cooldown. I'm confused now.
Nesso Wrote:At 11 cannon, consider putting points into Battleship if it's breaking all the time.
But wouldn't this be a move that one might regret later? You're able to keep it alive longer at lower levels while training, but at the same time you're increasing the cooldown for the higher levels. He said he's into bossing, so wouldn't that mess with him in that respect if he has to wait 5 minutes every time his ship breaks, just because he wanted to keep it alive a little longer when he was lower leveled?
Edit: Hmm, seems the research I did when I first started this class was a bit out of date. I just started playing slinger around Sep, and at the time I remember seeing a slinger battleship HP formula somewhere. Just doing some more research now, I realized that there was an update that actually gave us HP for each point put into BS.
However, the extra HP you gain doesn't seem worth it in the higher levels. Your level still adds to your HP. While you'd have more HP to work with on your ship, your cooldown would screw you over every time it breaks.
Oh, and rather than starting a new thread for this, I felt like asking here. Level 1 air strike, do you really use it? As in, I know you can use it at Newties to kill the upper platforms without going up there, but at level 1 does it get it's job done efficiently?
Because the two builds I was actually planning at 120 were the 1 BS, 1 cannon, 1 torp OR 1 BS, 1 torp, 1 Air strike.
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - Takebacker - 2009-11-01
aslemn Wrote:You get health at every level up,not at ever battleship level.
You get double the HP per point in battleship than you do when you level up. This has been confirmed for over a year. If she got battleship at 120 and putting SP into battleship didn't give HP, then she'd have a 0 HP ship, which makes no sense at all.
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - GunisBack - 2009-11-01
Spideyjvc Wrote:Wait, what? Last time I checked, adding SP into Battleship did absolutely nothing to it's HP. It's your owl level that goes into the Battleship HP formula. Adding points into it just adds defense and cooldown. I'm confused now.
Pretty sure that the boat hp formula is (level - 120 * 2000) + (4000*skilllevel).
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - Takebacker - 2009-11-01
GunisBack Wrote:Pretty sure that the boat hp formula is (level - 120 * 2000) + (4000*skilllevel).
To add to this, the cooldown is 90 seconds at all levels.
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - Spideyjvc - 2009-11-01
Takebacker Wrote:You get double the HP per point in battleship than you do when you level up. This has been confirmed for over a year. If she got battleship at 120 and putting SP into battleship didn't give HP, then she'd have a 0 HP ship, which makes no sense at all.
Wouldn't it be 4k HP at 120?
Takebacker Wrote:To add to this, the cooldown is 90 seconds at all levels.
Wait, really?
Okay, it seems my research was really out of date then. In that case, then I can totally see AP into Battleship being worth it.
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - Takebacker - 2009-11-01
Spideyjvc Wrote:Wouldn't it be 4k HP at 120?
It IS 4k HP. It would be 0 HP if battleship gave no HP as it leveled up, which is what i used to show that it does.
Spideyjvc Wrote:Wait, really?
Okay, it seems my research was really out of date then. In that case, then I can totally see AP into Battleship being worth it.
Only by about half a year or so. It's not THAT out of date.
I know corsairs who maxed their ship after cannon though. It's a nice boost for them.
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - Dusk - 2009-11-01
I advanced at 121 and I dumped my 6 points in 1 Elemental Boost, 1 Air Strike, 1 Torpedo, 1 Ship, and 2 Cannon.
1 Elemental Boost - extremely high priority skill. 4 second freeze makes killing mobs way easier. You get about 6 shots on the monster before it unfreezes, and even with Burst Fire this is enough to kill pretty much everything.
1 Air Strike - this was pretty useful for questing/hunting low level mobs, but the measly 10kish damage really doesn't help that much. It's useful for forming mobs at Skeles and Oblivion, but you don't really want mobs to fight before you have 21 Torpedo. I love Air Strike, but it's really just for fun at level 12x. I'd put one point in it early on, but the only reason it goes before you have 11 Cannon is because you'll get 11 Cannon at level 124 anyway.
1 Torpedo - pretty solid mob skill, although not all that useful with a low HP ship. At higher levels aggroing mobs is good, because it'll set them up for an easy kill with Torpedo, but at lower levels you'll need a lot of Torpedos to kill one monster, and they'll usually unfreeze at some point. Kind of useful at Newties for the first 2-3 levels, but once you have 11 Cannon just switch to that instead.
1 Ship - duh
The rest of the points just go into maxing Cannon.
At 6k HP your ship really doesn't last very long if you're doing bottom right at Newties. It was pretty frustrating having to dismount and mount over and over again just to avoid attacks, and not having the option to tank a hit just to kill something faster, the way I would now. Don't rely too much on the ship; Burst Fire was still a big deal at that point.
@above: maxing Ship after Cannon is a pretty common build, actually. I don't think it's all that necessary, though. I train fine with level 3 Ship at level 159, and if you're after pure bossing damage maxing Bullseye first would be more beneficial than maxing Ship.
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - Cancambo - 2009-11-01
A little off topic, but why do people wait to 121 to advance?
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - Takebacker - 2009-11-01
TehMatt Wrote:A little off topic, but why do people wait to 121 to advance?
They don't, only dusk did. (i think he was waiting to hit 4th job with a friend and just leveled again since he had a lot of time)
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - Cancambo - 2009-11-01
Takebacker Wrote:They don't, only dusk did. (i think he was waiting to hit 4th job with a friend and just leveled again since he had a lot of time)
KaidaTan did it too. And I saw Katie advance at 121 on her NL in the Level Up! thread.
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - Takebacker - 2009-11-01
TehMatt Wrote:KaidaTan did it too. And I saw Katie advance at 121 on her NL in the Level Up! thread.
Dunno about kaida, but i would think that katie did because she might have been leeching herself and got to 120 in the middle of a card, so just continued until it ended and happened to hit 121.
Just my guess.
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - KaidaTan - 2009-11-01
I was training on 8x with Carlos during the crazy 8x weekend in May and we didn't want to interrupt it for something as trivial as 4th job. Besides, it's not like the first 3 points are terribly helpful and we already had an SE mule.
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - Nesso - 2009-11-01
KaidaTan Wrote:So... 4 hits for 3 monsters is 12 hits. 6 hits is 6 hits for all 3 monsters. How exactly is Torpedo not as effective again? I don't follow your logic.
Three monsters? I was thinking about two, but I'm guessing you're talking about the bottom right corner in Newties right? It's better to Cannon there so the first Newtie will transform faster. Torpedo will just slow down the spawn. You probably knew that already, but...
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - KaidaTan - 2009-11-02
Nesso Wrote:Three monsters? I was thinking about two, but I'm guessing you're talking about the bottom right corner in Newties right? It's better to Cannon there so the first Newtie will transform faster. Torpedo will just slow down the spawn. You probably knew that already, but...In early 4th job, you're killing slow enough for spawn speed to not matter. There's always something to kill.
But hey, I'm not forcing anyone to use Torpedo early on. I believe it's faster training, but you can do whatever you want.
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - fiftyschmooo - 2009-11-02
KaidaTan Wrote:In early 4th job, you're killing slow enough for spawn speed to not matter. There's always something to kill.
But hey, I'm not forcing anyone to use Torpedo early on. I believe it's faster training, but you can do whatever you want.
yes, torp was MUCH faster than cannon was, Kaida isn't on crack... take it from another high lvl Sair Torp IS effective, sure it shoots a few shots less per min but when your cannon is only doing 3 hits torp is the way to go ^_^ and its not ALLLL about doing the bottom Right Plat ofNewties, it also carries over to Skeles if you endup going in 12X your actually useful since @ that level your killing slow anyways andwill be able to build up mobs there, and even solo there will be faster than you would think, and in GMS if you combine the Mark of Naricain and that new Medal for hitting 120 that also adds some hp(200 i think) and you have more than enough for skeles, just remember to freeze often) i dunno how MSEA is set up for Medals and Pendants as far as hp gain.
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - Reflexx - 2009-11-02
Ok! So i finally leveled, became a corsair, got my 4th job medal, equipped my egged HT pendant!! woohoo lol I have 4.2k HP unbuffed at lvl 120. So I did my battleship quest and I put one into battleship, now from what I read from kaida and fiftyschmoo I should put one into torpedo and last one into elemental amp/cannon.
@fifty, you explain how torp is really useful at early 12x because you will be able to mob at skeles, are you refering to torp Lv.1? is torp lv.1 capable of everything you said or were you just talking about torp in general, cuz If i decide to put one point into torp, I'm goin to leave it at lv.1 and level cannon after.
EDIT: someone please tell me rapid fire at lvl.1 is COMEPLETELY useless, cuz i have the urge of putting one point in it right now
EDIT EDIT: Also isn't 1 battleship 2 cannon at 120 also good cuz ill have 4 hit cannon a level sooner?
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - Dusk - 2009-11-02
Reflexx Wrote:Ok! So i finally leveled, became a corsair, got my 4th job medal, equipped my egged HT pendant!! woohoo lol I have 4.2k HP unbuffed at lvl 120. So I did my battleship quest and I put one into battleship, now from what I read from kaida and fiftyschmoo I should put one into torpedo and last one into elemental amp/cannon.
@fifty, you explain how torp is really useful at early 12x because you will be able to mob at skeles, are you refering to torp Lv.1? is torp lv.1 capable of everything you said or were you just talking about torp in general, cuz If i decide to put one point into torp, I'm goin to leave it at lv.1 and level cannon after.
EDIT: someone please tell me rapid fire at lvl.1 is COMEPLETELY useless, cuz i have the urge of putting one point in it right now
EDIT EDIT: Also isn't 1 battleship 2 cannon at 120 also good cuz ill have 4 hit cannon a level sooner?
You'll have 4 hit Cannon a level sooner, at the expense of not having Torpedo, Ele Boost, or another skill of your choice.
Rapid Fire is completely useless at level 1.
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - Spideyjvc - 2009-11-02
Reflexx Wrote:EDIT EDIT: Also isn't 1 battleship 2 cannon at 120 also good cuz ill have 4 hit cannon a level sooner?
Well, it depends on what you want really. Most of the Sair skills are pretty useful. You said that you wanted something you could use right away since you hit 4th, if you'd rather have 11 cannon 1 level sooner then go for it. But I'd think the extra freeze would be worth getting to aid your training.
2 battle ship > 20 Burst Fire? - fiftyschmooo - 2009-11-02
Reflexx Wrote:Ok! So i finally leveled, became a corsair, got my 4th job medal, equipped my egged HT pendant!! woohoo lol I have 4.2k HP unbuffed at lvl 120. So I did my battleship quest and I put one into battleship, now from what I read from kaida and fiftyschmoo I should put one into torpedo and last one into elemental amp/cannon.
@fifty, you explain how torp is really useful at early 12x because you will be able to mob at skeles, are you refering to torp Lv.1? is torp lv.1 capable of everything you said or were you just talking about torp in general, cuz If i decide to put one point into torp, I'm goin to leave it at lv.1 and level cannon after.
EDIT: someone please tell me rapid fire at lvl.1 is COMEPLETELY useless, cuz i have the urge of putting one point in it right now
EDIT EDIT: Also isn't 1 battleship 2 cannon at 120 also good cuz ill have 4 hit cannon a level sooner?
wellllll Rapid fire 1 is useless indeed....
if you plan to mindlessly train from like 120 -> 130 only spamming Cannon and never bossing or ... blinking... yes go 1 ship 2 cannon and max cannon so it goes 4 hits faster..... if you plan to actually have fun with your corsair and not waste a billion pots and get frustrated more when your ship dies a lot... then i would be more inclined to suggest you going
120 1 ship 1 cannon 1 elemental boost
121 1 rapid 1 torp 1 Air strike
that basically how i went it (all i did differentally was switch Elemental boost and Torp, which i regretted due to not having good freeze, another bonus to doing the liek 1 of everything build is that since your ship is going to have suck low hp getting the 1 more second in freeze will help it last longer and if your going to be waiting 1-2 levels longer before cannon is maxed/at a good useable level then having a higher level and thus more hp on your ship by then will also help you train better since @ very eairly 120's if you throw all your eggs in the Max cannon b4 anything else even gets 1 point build.. sure your cannon hits 4 times a lvl or 2 earlier... but your ship still dies a lot
ACTUALLY i was just thinking of this while walking thru our warehouse... uhh im not sure if anyone has done the Math on this one yet or not but ive always wondered in my brain if level 1 Rapid fire would beat out Burst fire in DPM if you have maxed Crit, Sure you may not always be in a situation to be able to use maxed SE all the time... but it does happen ocatonally... OMG math
lvl 20 Burst is 210% damage X3 bullets and ~ 87 shots per min thats 54810% damage per min
lvl 1 Rapid fire is 102% damage per bullet and overall 500 shots per min thats 51000% damage per min
now to introduce Maxed SE which stats would be 15% chance of adding 140% to your damage per bullet
so for burst fire over 1 min it would be using 87 X3 bullets giving it 261 chances to crit which would give approxmitally 39 chances to Crit for a total of 5460% extra damage over the 1 minute
than for Rapif fire over one min you would be using 500 bullets per min giving you approxmitally 75 chances to crit for a total of 10500% extra damage
making Burst fire 54810%(base damage per min) + 5460%(Crit additions) = 60270%
and Rapid fire becomes 51000%(base damage per min) + 10500%(crit additions) = 61500%
so..... i GUESSSSSS you COULD argue lvl 1 Rapid Fire COULD be useful if you have a SE mule stalk you around for those 10-30 levels before you decide to lvl it past 1 .. lol but take this with a grain of salt cause this is only the pure mathematics of it and rarely applies to real world (maple world) situation